Ketosis ~ getting out

(Cathy) #1

I have been keto since the fall of 2009 although I didn’t start testing blood ketones until January 2013. I am coming up on 8 full years with only very rare off plan dalliance and only in the past couple of years would I do so.

Two times this week, I had occasion to eat off plan. One at a ball game and yesterday, at a special lunch celebration. Each day, I ate wheat and my carb count had to be at least 100g ~ maybe more. I tested the following morning and still have a good level of fasting b.k. (1.2 and 1.1). Pretty much the usual.

I clearly do not come out of ketosis easily anymore. I have other ‘data’ to support this. I wonder if this is normal and if there is any scientific information. It seems that ketosis is my ‘normal’ state and getting out of ketosis might be like it was getting into ketosis in the beginning.

Any thoughts?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #2

Main thought is don’t get complacent.

(Cathy) #3

Thanks. I am fully invested in keto as a preferred state. It is my belief that even though I don’t get pushed out of keto by eating off plan stuff now and then, I do believe it is not good for me and avoid non keto food for that reason 99.9% of the time.

I was hoping that there might be others who have the same situation…

#4

This is very late… but i’m having the same problem… I cant seem to get out of ketosis after being in for about 4 months.
I think you’re right that it is the same as going into ketosis, it takes time to get out.

I have increased my carbs and sugar to over 100g a day. I think try cutting out fat as that may help.

(Cathy) #5

I have found out that I do indeed bump out of keto if I eat sugar and/or wheat. All the other times that I experimented, I always avoided those. This past Christmas I had a small dessert AND a few chocolates. That is along with savory carb foods like potatoes and rice. I checked blood ketones that evening and the next morning and was below .5. The following morning, after resuming my normal keto style eating, I was back in at 1.3 fasting blood ketones. So my theory is only correct when it doesn’t involve sugar/wheat.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #6

There are many reasons a person might be producing ketones, not all diet related. Check it out:

(Cathy) #7

Hi PetaMarie! Not sure what your message is here. with the linked article about ketone bodies. It really doesn’t seem to answer the situation aside from pointing out some other issues that don’t seem to apply given that we know why we are producing ketones (as fat burners via diet).

#8

Does being under .5 mean you’re “out” of ketosis? Just wondering because before I started keto I was always at .0 but now if I eat a lot of carbs/sugar it tends to drop no lower than .3 or .4

#9

Do you mean processed sugar or like fruit? And wheat like things with gluten?

thanks

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #10

OP is interested in getting out of ketosis, or not getting a reading of ketones and discusses changes made to the diet to that end. I want to bring to their attention that it’s possible for ketones to be produced by other things, not just diet (excessive exercise, for example) and that our bodies can switch back and forth between the two depending on different circumstances. That’s why I posted the link.

(Cathy) #11

The technical amount of blood ketones to be in ketosis is .5. However, I do think that this is a standard that doesn’t necessarily apply to everyone.

(Cathy) #12

I mean all of that. Sugar from fruit is no different than processed sugar in the way that it raises insulin aside from the fact that it might be a slower response due to the fiber that accompanies fruit. Wheat is the other thing I was referring to and not gluten per say.

(Cathy) #13

I am pretty certain that my ketosis is due to diet (now in my 10th year) and when I have experimented in recent years, it is diet that is the factor that I change. Generally all the situations that are stated in the article that bring on ketosis are essentially the same which is depleting glucagon (as I understand it).

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #14

Cathy, I think there is some confusion here. I wasn’t directing my original comment at you. I was bringing the information up with raye323, my comment was a reply to her. I just scrolled way up and realize she is posting in a your thread, but she also has her own thread on the subject and that’s where I thought I was. I make no comment about your journey or current place, except congratulations!! Sorry about that.

(Edith) #15

Just a thought with no scientific backing:

Maybe your ketones were raised the following day because your body utilized the carbs first which left some unused ketones floating around in your blood stream. Maybe to exit ketosis you would need to have more than one day of carbs to see low to no ketones in your blood.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

I realize that this is an old thread, but the question raised seems worth answering, nevertheless. Here’s my attempt:

Dr. Phinney, in the videos of his lectures that I watched before going keto, always talked about 100-125 g/day of carbohydrate as a ketogenic level of intake. I notice that for the diabetics who are patients of Virta Health, Dr. Phinney now talks about a 50 g/day limit on carbohydrate.

It is entirely possible that your insulin resistance has improved over the past 9 years to the point where you can now handle that much carbohydrate. If I were you, I wouldn’t push my luck, however. A sufficient glycemic load is likely to elevate insulin to the point of halting ketogenesis, and sucrose—or any other source of fructose, for that matter—in sufficient quantity is likely to start you down the road to the same kind of liver damage you’ve spent the last nine or ten years healing from.

(Ken) #17

Not quite right. True, eating carbs will halt glucagon production (along with ketones) but the idea that eating carbs being able to set you down the road of detrimental readaption is entirely subjective. The issue is what triggers readaptation? It is dependent on one thing: Glycogen levels. Let’s not feed a nutty Keto Carb phobia about carbs and use the specific science. You have to follow a chronic eating pattern that overcompensates glycogen for any of that to occur. For people in Lipostasis, meaning Maintenance, (if unintentional, usually referred to as a Stall) that can mean quite a few carbs at a time, as long as you drop your carb intake afterwards to allow glycogen levels to drop. IMO, periods of Maintenance are beneficial for metabolic reasons, and are useful to allow the body to adjust. For example, a person experiencing a long Stall should try a couple of weeks of it in order to more easily lose fat afterwards.