Ketosis and Weight Loss

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #27

Phinney has stated (in lectures available on YouTube) that a well-formulated ketogenic diet eaten to satiety speeds up the metabolism so that, although we end up eating more fat, we also end up metabolising more fat. This means that the body is capable of using both dietary fat and any excess stored fat it wants to shed.

#28

Really interesting article, thanks. And a load of other links to follow, but less thanks for that as I really shoold go to sleep now…

#29

I live for that day……

(Gail St Aubin) #30

I have no idea. That’s why I’m asking.

(Gail St Aubin) #31

That makes sense. I am at around 1000 calories per day. I am keeping my carbs below 20. My current weight is 188, and I am only looking to possibly go down to about 160. Thanks for the information you shared.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #32

Since you have been on a ketogenic diet for only a month, and since your post mentions only serum β-hydroxybutyrate and not serum glucose, I think that Bob’s question means, “on what basis have you concluded that your glucose control is not improving.” For example, do you have serum glucose readings, or HbA1C that give reason to believe this?

This is likely to work against you, so far as fat loss is concerned. Try eating enough to satisfy your hunger, and see if that doesn’t help start your loss. Many people on these forums have found that their weight didn’t start dropping until they began eating more, not less. There are plenty of posts on these forums explaining how the human body works, in this connexion.

Though 28 lbs. are going to come off very slowly, in any case.

(Gail St Aubin) #33

Tracking. On Cronometer.

(Gail St Aubin) #34

I am using a glucose meter four times a day. Readings are better, just not what I expected with so few carbs.

(Gail St Aubin) #35

I can’t really eat very much more than 1000 calories because I had gastric bypass surgery (13 years ago). And I seldom actually get hungry. Sometimes I have to remind myself to eat.

(Robin) #36

Well, thats’ an interesting situation I have noticed seen explored here. Keto after bi-pass surgery. Could you get more calories if added some small meals?

(Gail St Aubin) #37

Yes, possibly. It is a little hard to digest meat, but I could do sliced meat, or cheese, or eggs- which I do, but more!

#38

Nice! What are your stats and how are you looking for average macros? The answers gotta be there. Also, what’s your activity level?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #39

@GailSt Thanks for the additional info about yourself - it’s important to know what you’re dealing with for anyone to make useful suggestions. Anyhow, I’ve said the following multiple times in multiple places and it bears repeating for your benefit here. Keto is a process of metabolic normalization that takes time, depending on the specific damage and degree of severity that needs fixing. The basic requirement is to get into ketosis and stay there consistently - by which I mean 100% of the time. The second requirement is to give your body and metabolism sufficient fuel to get the job done. I doubt that 1000 cals per day will suffice - so you’ll likely have to eat more frequently. Some of us do not have normal hunger and satiety signals so we use appropriate tools/feedback to make sure we eat enough but not more than enough. This stuff is not magic and often requires more effort than you think, but the outcome is worth whatever it takes.

(Richard Morris) #40

No. It’s a bit more nuanced. But that’s not surprising, I have studied some biochem in the past 6 years.

When you eat more protein, digested amino acids replete your labile pool of protein. That is a buffer that constitutes roughly 1% of your lean mass and consists of amino acids and short peptides in aqueous compartments (circulating, cytosolic). That buffer is drawn down to make proteins including enzymes, peptides, cellular structures (including muscle cells), non-cellular structures. Excess to requirements is ultimately deaminated and the rest of the carbon backbone oxidized for energy (although there are multiple pathways only one of which involves glucose). The ammonia is converted to urea and disposed in urine.

Specific amino acids in circulation directly stimulate insulin secretion from the pancreas. They don’t have to become glucose first. That effect in type 2 diabetics is almost as potent as glucose stimulated insulin secretion so the point is probably moot.

#41

This caught my eye because of something that has happened to me lately, so I’m going to comment even though it isn’t strictly relevant to GailSt’s issue. I’ve been on a ketogenic diet for about three months now and have had a very easy time of it and good results. I may post more on that later. Part of the reason I’ve done well is that my family and friends – most importantly my wife – have been supportive and never sabotaged my effort. One small exception is in pushing me to eat just a little more of something that is perfectly okay for me to eat. For example, my wife (channeling her inner Jewish mother) will say, “There’s just one more chicken thigh. You should have it; after all, you can eat as much as you want.” She would never say, “Have a little cake, what can it hurt?” because she is thrilled at the benefits I am deriving and wants to help, but sometimes she doesn’t completely understand that eating to satiety doesn’t mean eating till you’re stuffed. And sometimes my understanding suffers a lapse as well. After all, that thigh looks so juicy and delicious, with such crispy skin. If I eat it now, I won’t have to wrap and refrigerate it. Why not? So I’ve had to educate myself and those around me that I should stop when I’m full. A big part of why keto works is that it breaks the vicious cycle that keeps us hungry even when we’ve eaten excess to requirements, but as firmly as we reject the CICO model, no good will come from eating past satiety.

(Robin) #42

I love your wife! I WAS your wife! Lol
The operative word in “eat as much as you want” is WANT.
You can say that your body has just told you it wants no more. And you have to listen and that lovely chicken thigh will still be marvelous later.

Good job on your success and much more to come. You got this!

(Kirk Wolak) #43

This is an old post of mine. But it walks through my struggles, and identifies the levers.
So, 20g may be too high. Solidly in ketosis when you are new, may not be enough.
What are your morning Ketone and Glucose readings?

Losing weight doesn’t mean you did not lose fat!
Eat Protein first, then add fat as needed.
I will often eat 1/2 - 1 stick of butter with hamburgers because the fat cooks off.
My wife teases me that she’s just going to put a popsicle stick in the butter stick… LOL

Anyways, weight fluctuates. And 20g of carbs could be too much. Some of the non-meat stuff you are eating could cause some water weight to stick around. (avocados do that to me).

#44

Only one thing I’d like to add here as others cover the science of it all more competently than I ever could: keep it do-able and keep it pleasant. Pursuing exact ratios and exact results sure takes the joy out of eating! Follow the simple guidelines of reducing your carbs way down, upping your fats, and eating as much as you wish. Pay more attention to the feedback of an alert brain, less drowsiness, more energy, reduced cravings, loss of girth, clear skin, shiny hair, strong nails…

Yes, for a short period in the beginning maybe you’d benefit from tracking, but after that you will have learned what you can eat and how much of it. Take that information and go off and make some yummy meals. That’s all it takes IMHO.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #45

This was extremely important to my success on a ketogenic diet. I had tried calculating calories, etc., on diets as a carb-burner, and it drove me crazy. I had a lot of psychological resistance to the idea of going hungry.

One thing that appealed to me about a low-carb/ketogenic diet was Dr. Phinney’s admonition to eat to satiety. That meant there was no need to count calories. Somehow, just keeping carbohydrate intake very low felt very simple in comparison, and I could do that without triggering any resistance. Dr. Phinney’s advice not to fear fat also made a lot of sense.

The result was that I shed 80 lbs./36.4 kg with absolutely no effort. I didn’t have to exercise or anything; it just happened. And I never went hungry. Since the weight lost was 26% of my starting weight, my body has stopped to rest for a while. While it would be nice to shed a further 80 lbs., my blood work and other health markers all returned to the normal range, which was my primary reason for going keto, so I am content.

I am encouraged, however, by Dr. Phinney’s observation in a recent lecture that he has seen patients whose fat loss eventually started up again. He said it was as though, once they’d spent a few years at the new weight, the body was ready to start shedding more excess fat to reach a new stable point.

#46

We’re clearly in agreement, but feel compelled to emphasize that while I never found it particularly difficult to ditch the obvious Big Carbs as by and large they’re very bland, I continue to find it challenging dealing with how easily the Minor Carbs add up – things like onions or tomatoes or carrots – as they’re often pretty important base flavors.