Ketonix readings not agreeing g with blood meter

[Roy_D_Rushing_Jr]

So I got a ketonix Bluetooth in almost a week ago. I’ve been using it at least 4 times per day since then and I really have yet to get a result that seems particularly informative. During the day I pretty much fast aside from some coffee with butter or other fat in it. All day I’ll blow extremely low numbers, somewhere between 1 and 4ppm from about 8am to 5pm. If this were my only point of reference I would be assuming that I wasn’t in ketosis all day, but I’ll also be taking a few blood tests throughout the day which all show me to be in nutritional ketosis.

Now I get that the two tests are measuring different chemicals that may not always have any relationship with each other, but isn’t the whole point of the ketonix that it can tell you that you’re in ketosis withou having resort to blood tests? If it’s telling me that I’m not in ketosis when I am, it isn’t doing it’s job. I would assume that maybe I got a bad unit that doesn’t sense acetone very well, but the thing goes nuts every evening when I use it after eating. At those times I’ll blow between 20 and 60ppm, yet my blood monitor tests will be mostly unchanged.

I guess my question is what gives? Why does the thing only register nutritional ketosis after a meal? Why can’t I use it to at least verify that I’m in ketosis at any other time? After all, that last bit would seem to be its main use. It doesn’t have to be accurate for me to be satisfied. It just has to give a positive result when I’m in ketosis and a negative result when I’m not. Right now all it tells me is that I just ate, and I don’t know what bearing that has on anything.

[mtncntrykid]

Might be bad as I would assume you should get some kind of acetone reading. Take a little drink of alcohol and see what you get?

[KevinB]

It’s been a while since I’ve taken readings with my Ketonix, but I saw very little correlation between readings that I got with my Ketonix versus those that I got from measuring blood ketones. There would be times when my blood ketones were quite high (like above 3.0), but the Ketonix showed a fairly low reading.

I did find the Ketonix to be useful in the very early days. There were some days when I got some fairly high readings. It was reassuring to know that I was in ketosis back then. A few weeks after getting those high readings, the levels dropped quite dramatically. It was around then that I bought my first blood ketone meter to find out what was going on. It turned out that I was still in ketosis, but for some reason those high levels of breath acetone had dropped.

I’m only measuring blood ketones and blood glucose now.

[Roy_D_Rushing_Jr]

Well I do believe I’m fat adapted now. Maybe that’s what’s going on here. I have yet to try an extended fast yet, but I hear that people will blow consistently higher and higher numbers as they progress into a fast. I’ll be doing one next week I think. We’ll have to see what happens then. I’ll try the alcohol thing too, but I really think my sensor isn’t bad. For some reason my body starts pumping out the acetone after my main meal every evening, and that always registers pretty well. I never have any alcohol or anything else I suspect might be fooling the meter, so it must be some kind of post meal metabolic thing going on.

[Acetix]

So I got a ketonix Bluetooth in almost a week ago. I’ve been using it at least 4 times per day since then and I really have yet to get a result that seems particularly informative. During the day I pretty much fast aside from some coffee with butter or other fat in it. All day I’ll blow extremely low numbers, somewhere between 1 and 4ppm from about 8am to 5pm. If this were my only point of reference I would be assuming that I wasn’t in ketosis all day, but I’ll also be taking a few blood tests throughout the day which all show me to be in nutritional ketosis.

My take on this is that measuring blood just measures the level of ketones in the blood at that particular time. In no way does this equate to being in nutritional ketosis. If you are fasting and only consuming fats then of course you are going to find ketones in the blood. What are these “other fats” that you are consuming in addition to butter? Perhaps they could in effect be exogenous ketones.

Now I get that the two tests are measuring different chemicals that may not always have any relationship with each other, but isn’t the whole point of the ketonix that it can tell you that you’re in ketosis withou having resort to blood tests? If it’s telling me that I’m not in ketosis when I am, it isn’t doing it’s job. I would assume that maybe I got a bad unit that doesn’t sense acetone very well, but the thing goes nuts every evening when I use it after eating. At those times I’ll blow between 20 and 60ppm, yet my blood monitor tests will be mostly unchanged.

Again, what are you eating that causes this instantaneous response? Sounds like the methane effect of carbohydrate consumption or some form of inadvertent alcohol consumption.

I guess my question is what gives? Why does the thing only register nutritional ketosis after a meal? Why can’t I use it to at least verify that I’m in ketosis at any other time? After all, that last bit would seem to be its main use. It doesn’t have to be accurate for me to be satisfied. It just has to give a positive result when I’m in ketosis and a negative result when I’m not. Right now all it tells me is that I just ate, and I don’t know what bearing that has on anything.

Once more this is not an indication of nutritional ketosis. It seems that you are operating at a basal ketosis level and not in nutritional ketosis.

How long are you following a ketogenic diet? Long enough to be fat adapted?

The Ketonix is only the messenger. Don’t shoot it down because it conflicts with blood ketone readings.That is a very popular theme in this forum.

Hint; Try to improve you breathing technique for the Ketonix. Inhale fully until you rib-cage/shoulders are raised as far as possible.Exhale until your rib-cage drops onto your stomach, then start blowing and begin counting until you run out of breath. It sometimes helps to swallow during blowing to break the monotony/panic of exhaling continuously. Counting will allow you to judge if you are being consistent in your sampling. If you feel the sample was off you can easily blow again and delete a spurious reading from the recorded measurements.

[Roy_D_Rushing_Jr]

My take on this is that measuring blood just measures the level of ketones in the blood at that particular time. In no way does this equate to being in nutritional ketosis. If you are fasting and only consuming fats then of course you are going to find ketones in the blood. What are these “other fats” that you are consuming in addition to butter? Perhaps they could in effect be exogenous ketones.

The other fats that I sometimes consume are MCT oil and heavy cream. I assume that you’re referring to the MCT oil as possibly acting as an exogenous ketone. In the past week I’ve tried it both with and without the MCT oil with much the same results. The days that I use MCT oil I’ll get a few tenths of a point higher on the blood tests, but the ketonix registers no change. On the days that I don’t use MCT oil I’ll still register as in nutritional ketosis on the blood tests (generally between 0.7 and 1.5 mmol/L), and blow pretty much exactly the same numbers on the ketonix as when I use MCT oil (generally between 1-4 in the blue range on the scale)

Again, what are you eating that causes this instantaneous response? Sounds like the methane effect of carbohydrate consumption or some form of inadvertent alcohol consumption.

It’s been a variety of different things. Last night it was chicken thighs with a balsamic vinegar sauce and roasted asparagus. The night before that it was ribeye smothered in cheese and guacamole. I track my carbohydrate intake pretty carefully using the carb manager app on my phone and I never go above 20g per day. None of these foods had any unaccounted for carbs in them, nor did they involve any alcohol in their preparation, nor did I consume any alcohol with them.

Once more this is not an indication of nutritional ketosis. It seems that you are operating at a basal ketosis level and not in nutritional ketosis.

How long are you following a ketogenic diet? Long enough to be fat adapted?

The Ketonix is only the messenger. Don’t shoot it down because it conflicts with blood ketone readings.That is a very popular theme in this forum.

Hint; Try to improve you breathing technique for the Ketonix. Inhale fully until you rib-cage/shoulders are raised as far as possible.Exhale until your rib-cage drops onto your stomach, then start blowing and begin counting until you run out of breath. It sometimes helps to swallow during blowing to break the monotony/panic of exhaling continuously. Counting will allow you to judge if you are being consistent in your sampling. If you feel the sample was off you can easily blow again and delete a spurious reading from the recorded measurements.

Here’s a screenshot of a test I did on my ketonix app along with a picture of a blood test taken shortly after 8AM this morning. The blood test is only .7 I know, but it’s typical of my blood readings within an hour or two of waking in the morning. I guess it’s the “dawning effect” people talk about. I have not had any food at all since the meal last night, so it must not have had any unaccounted for carbs or else I wouldn’t be in ketosis still some 12 hours later. I plan on not consuming anything but butter and heavy cream until 5:00PM today, and I will continue to post results from both blood tests and the ketonix results to demonstrate what is happening. I already know what will happen. The blood tests will go up somewhat as the dawning effect goes away and my body goes a little deeper into ketosis, and the ketonix will continue to display more or less the same results. It’s quite frustrating really.

[Callisto]

Roy, you’ve probably seen this thread already, but just in case you haven’t, there was some good explanation of why the discrepancy can happen between the two meters. Since they are measuring different types of ketones, exercise and other factors can make a difference. Not sure if these apply to your situation but might help you troubleshoot.

Ketonix/Blood Ketone correlation

My Ketonix correlates well with my blood ketone meter. My Ketonix is a second generation. I do not have it hooked up to my laptop for data but am going by number of flashes and colors for now. It flashes 10 blue, 10 green, 10 yellow, and 10 red, red being highest. Yellow is good nutritional ketosis mid range flashes, 5 and up. If blood ketones are under 1, it flashes low yellows. If blood ketones are high ones or low twos, it flashes high yellows. High twos? One flash red. Today? At 4.3 blo…

[Roy_D_Rushing_Jr]

I did see that thread. I’ve actually done quite a bit of googling and searching on this forum for an answer to this question before posting this thread. I’m aware that the two tests measure distinctly different kind of ketones, and they may not correlate exactly. I thought this would be a matter of degree rather than disagreeing on the basic fact of nutritional ketosis itself though. More than the blood tests, I’ve also got my lack of hunger and cravings, mental clarity, and steady energy levels to assure me that I am indeed in ketosis. The ketonix refuses to agree with literally everything else on that fact though, with the notable exception of reading very high numbers an hour or two after my evening meal. I’m flummoxed as to exactly what it’s supposed to be telling me here.

[Callisto]

Yeah, I figured you had seen it. I know some people really find the Ketonix useful but I had issues with it too. I didn’t do back to back comparisons like you’re doing, but I never quite felt like I was getting useful, actionable feedback of what I was or wasn’t eating. It was more useful for getting broad trends, and I felt like my blood meter was giving me a higher resolution view of these changes.

[Roy_D_Rushing_Jr]

Here’s a reading I took at about 10:30AM

And here’s a reading I took at 12:50 PM

As you can see, the difference is only getting worse as time goes on. By the second reading I had consumed two tablespoons each of butter and heavy cream in my coffee. Nothing else since last night’s meal.

[Acetix]

Roy, that’s really excellent data. I think you might still be dumping ketones via your kidneys. This should change shortly. Now all you need is Ketostix to get the full picture but I thing you will transition into nutritional ketosis very soon. It’s late in Greenwich Mean Time here so I’ll try to expand in the morning. Michael

[Acetix]

Just to summarise:

The Ketonix measures acetone which is the byproduct of Ketone burning.

The Ketomojo measures the ketones available for burning in the blood.

If you are fat adapted and have excess body/visceral fat this level will rise up to 2 or more while fasting and/or consuming fats over a period of some days. The Ketomojo is an integrative indicator of the build up of ketones in the blood over and above what is used. In a person so early into Keto it takes the body some time to learn how to control the amount of ketones to release into the blood. Your blood ketone readings are similar to those of a person that has been pursuing Keto for some time. In the interim, I think your blood ketones should rise for several weeks/months until your body becomes accustomed to the process.

Also you don’t seem to have a problem with your breathing technique for using the Ketonix. The breathing generally takes a while to get a level of consistency established.

That’s my two cents worth. I am sure that more informed Keto dudes will be able to correct/inform my take on Acetone V BHB measurement.

Note:Last time I checked I was unable to purchase a Ketomojo because I’m outside the US.

[CaptainKirk]

Roy,
I have a ketonix, and am getting relatively low numbers: Usually between 6-10.

But the BioHackers interview, Michel explains that Blood measures AVAILABLE energy (just like glucose in the blood is the energy you CAN use). And Breath is measuring EXPENDITURE Energy (Exhaust). Actually MEASURING the ketones being burned up in real time. I plan to take mine with me for my next walk/jog. And test some of this out. While I expect my blood ketone levels to be more stable (and I wont test while jogging, lol). Until after I come back in… In which I expect them to bump up.

As an aside. I took a GTT (Glucose Tolerance Test) with 75g of glucose, and according to my blood, I stayed in ketosis! Is that true? No. I was spewing insulin, and lowering my glucose (85, 198, 61) (0,1hr, 2hrs). But my blood ketones were: 6, 4, 2.5… According to my blood, I never came out of ketosis.

I did NOT own the ketonix yet. But I bet I was not EXHALING ketones.

Also, along the way, I lost the ability to “taste” the ketones in my breath. I am now realizing that I am just not metabolizing them the same way, as my weight loss has significant slowed! (No complaints, I have lost 82 lbs from my high, and I am NEVER GOING BACK!!! 35 to go!)

Anyways, I know this is months after the fact. But I think you cannot compare apples to oranges. On the flip side, I am wondering about the VALUE of the number that comes from the Ketonix. I have only had 2 times of getting in the 20s, never in the 30s…