Ketonix green bluetooth question

(Chris Kunselman) #1

Hi, I’m starting out on keto and would prefer to use my Ketonix instead of a blood test to verify that I am in ketosis. The new ketonix app has two settings. If I leave the check box on “I’m using a ketogenic/low-carb diet.” The breathe reading says I’m in therapeutic ketosis. If I uncheck that box, my breath reading says that I’m in very low ketosis. Thus, I really have NO IDEA what state I am in… The company provides very confusing documentation on this. What is the best way to know if I’m in ketosis if I’m starting out? This breathe sensor seems useless so far with poor instruction and explanation. Getting started, should I leave the box unchecked? or checked? Your experience with this will be much appreciated.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Well. the first question would be whether you are eating a low-carb, high-fat, ketogenic diet or not. I assume it makes a difference to the device, or the app wouldn’t have the check box.

One problem with these breath meters is that the cheap ones can’t really tell the difference between alcohol and acetone in the breath. For measuring blood alcohol concentration, that’s not crucial, since acetone is one of the by-products of drinking alcohol. So I assume the check box has something to do with that.

From an old forum member I picked up this cheap and easy way to tell whether we are in ketosis or not. Ask yourself two questions:

  1. Am I eating less than 20 g/day of carbohydrate?

  2. Ami I still breathing in and out?

If you can answer yes to both these questions, then you are in ketosis.

(Cathy) #3

I have an old Ketonix and I use it to tell me if there are any measurable ketones. I do not expect anything more than that from it. The device was designed to help type 1 diabetics know if they were in ketoacidosis and so the application is not exactly gaged towards the average person doing keto. I think that is the limit of the device.

The only reliable way to measure ketones is via blood in my opinion.

#4

Regardless of method, measuring ketones is a waste of time and money unless you have a medical condition that actually requires you to keep them high. There’s no such thing as “low” ketosis, there’s no such thing as “therapeutic” or “deep” ketosis, all made up marketing BS. You’re either making ketones or you’re not, and if you are, you’re in ketosis. They don’t correlate with fat loss speed, so where’s the benefit? We all fell for that crap at some point, but RUN while you can.

Keep the carbs low, and you’ll be in ketosis. Spend the money on Steak.

(Cathy) #5

While I respect your opinion and agree to a point, there is a valuable reason to measure ketones in my opinion and that is learn and understand your own individual tolerance to carbs and at what point too much veg, or the wrong artificial sweetener, etc. interfere with ketosis.

For those who are long timers, this is a moving target and being aware of these things is helpful and not a waste. More info is of benefit for many.

#6

Agreed, but here’s the problem when it comes to ketones specifically. It can’t even be agreed upon whether blood or breath ketones tell you anything, if you’re in ketosis and have pretty respectable blood levels, that’s energy you created, now eat a bunch of carbs, your body will preferentially burn the carbs over the ketones, you’ll still burn both, but the carbs will win. In the meantime, those ketones are still in circulation until your liver stops making them (won’t take too long) but also until you actually burn off everything you’ve already made. This is why you see people making insane claims like “I can’t have 5 beers and stay in ketosis”! WRONG! Plus, in Alcohol’s example, it’ll show as breath ketones, so if that’s how you’re measuring, even more misleading results.

Alcohol aside, if you were going straight to breathe, stuff as simple as your respiratory rate can affect it as you breathe out more at a time, plus simple food choices that don’t actually affect anything can very noticeably effect breathe (and blood) ketone levels. Those eating crazy high fat or lots of MCTs will show higher, but since those levels don’t mean anything, in most cases you just mislead yourself. Then of course for many that do super strict keto for long periods as I did, there’s carb over-reaction, which isn’t a real life measure.

I’m all for quantifying results when you can, I’m literally on a first name basis with the Quest and LabCorp in my neighborhood, but what I’m doing labs on directly has in impact. Like I said, in the case of Keto as a medical intervention, that level (then) really matters, but that aside, I can’t see how that would help. If you’ve thought of something most of us haven’t, by all means throw it out there.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

Raising carb intake high enough to require insulin to shift the body from fatty-acid metabolism to glycolysis, and ketogenesis and gluconeogenesis in the liver will be halted by that same elevated serum insulin.

The thing I haven’t reconciled in my mind yet is that ketone bodies are both fuel sources and hormones with potent epigenetic effects. So perhaps Phinney and Volek have a point when they define nutritional ketosis as serum β-hydroxybutyrate of 0.5 mmol/dL or higher. But the logic of the notion that the liver starts better matching supply to demand still makes sense to me, so I guess we can still believe that the ketones are there and having an effect, we just aren’t catching them.

(Cathy) #8

All I am saying is, I think under ‘ordinary’ circumstances (i.e. no alcohol or hacks), it is useful to know whether or not a person is in ketosis in terms of regulating diet. I would say the information garnered from testing is mostly useful to someone who is learning how their individual body reacts to a variety of foods, amounts and timing. It is not necessary but can be of use particularly if problems are encountered. It is just a tool.

Many people never ever test and do just fine. Others do test and do well with more data. How a person interprets their info is of course, another question but more data is never a bad thing or a waste in my opinion.

(Cathy) #9

You raise the issue of insulin which is the crux of the issue. Too bad we can’t accurately measure that at will!!!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

Yep. Unfortunately, it requires a radioassay. I know people are working on a home test, but it will take them a while.