Ketonix Breath analyzer Help - Keto Level Comparisons

[zdarma]

Beth, when you are in the measure tab, click on “Measure” in the top right corner after a reading is given. Before you start, it will say ready, breathe into the device as much as you can. Wait for the needle to stop moving. Click on Measure. I also have none of my previous data. I tried to import a CSV file, but it doesn’t seem to work. The below image is where you should click to save. I’m not sure why they decided to use “Measure” instead of “Save”.

[bee]

Wow, thank you for a very detailed answer, @zdarma – with picture, even! I had missed that I need to click on that measure – seems counterintuitive to me! I really appreciate your help! I did get a very brief reply from the ketonix guy:

_I made the software a bit more modern. It does not require java any more. _

You can import your old csv file. Have a look in the manual.

That’s it – all the help I got. I guess I had better go in search of the manual…

[Vampire]

It wasn’t clear I needed to click to save, though I didn’t investigate further as I’m not tracking the results long term.

[JasonCordier]

Warning - long. Hello team, Thanks for all the info to date. I am however hoping to specifically come up with a definitive way to interpret the readings for the Ketonix 2017 v2.2 device. I have read the entire thread in addition to the manual, and I was hoping to consolidate some of the facts we have as a means for me to be clearer on a few questions that seem to go around in circles. I am clear on the operating perimeters - namely measurement error caused through incorrect breathing technique, consuming large volumes of carbs, and consuming alcohol etc.

The ranges people are experiencing however are very wide and I was hoping to establish some context around these variations, and come up with a better understanding of what it actually means to have certain readings.

@flipflop Tom Clark references between 4 and 30 ppm as the nutritional Ketosis level. Responding to another post, Tom says once you hit green you are in nutritional ketosis. John Marty says he has got his as high as 7PPM, but usual operates his below 4 - having been in on a Ketogenic diet (consistently I assume) for six months or more. He is disheartened at 7.

Q.1 What does, say, between 4 and 10PPM mean then? In ketosis, but not getting a great deal of bang for your buck on energy delivery? If one was to remain in this range, can life still be good and you are doing things right? Or does this mean something is possibly a little off? Perhaps one has further to travel? If so over what broad time range?

Tom Clark thinks it’s fine, which is a little bit of a relief for me, who so far has been in the 3-6 PPM Range, 4 weeks in with ebbs and flows through out those ranges. However, then Brian reports that his average range is three to five times these values (36 - 52 PPM, hitting orange).

Q.2 If nutritional Ketosis is 4- 30, what does 50ppm and above signify? Greater levels of ketones, much higher energy levels, greater fat burning? @Brian, would you be so kind as to let me know how long you had maintained a keto diet before getting your first readings? Much appreciated!

@Andrew found success by addressing breathing, and hit close to 9PPM. This was great news, but this then circles back to question 1. Andrew, how long had you been doing keto before getting the that reading (measurement issues aside)?

@Brenda hits 50PPM, and then 80PPM. She did blood testing and found a somewhat linear relationship for her. I believe from listening to the pod cast, you are a fasting rock star - so this makes some sense to me. I still can’t seem to reconcile the meaning of each of these levels however, and broadly what context would surround me migrating up a level! Time, luck etc?

Q.3 Finally, what is red meant to represent? Rocket fuel in the blood? @Brenda, how long were you on the wagon to hit that number (or the equivalent in the blood strips for you since you seem to have some linear relationship between the two)? Was this after an extended fast? @Vampire is also hit the 50s, so us kids down the bottom are starting to worry again

And so it goes on. I am really racking my brain on this, and any help in framing this - so my simple mind can make sense of this - would be amazing. I got this thing in order to self experiment. I had done IF for about a month, then another month (of which there had been about three fasts ranging between 48 and 92 hours). I had a carb holiday before this thing arrived, then feasted on fat for a week before doing a 72 hour fast - only to barely moved the gauge. And so it continues. Truly sorry for such a long post. I just was hoping to address the issue I seem to be failing to get.

Awesome group, awesome Podcast! Thank you in advance. Truly. Jason

[Urgane83]

Hi Guys I’m very interested in your answers to these questions, if you have some, as I am one who stays in the very low range (between 2 -6 ppm) of nutritionnal ketosis, with a 15g/d carb diet… I hit 14 once, just before breaking a 72 hours fast. I’m now beginning another fast, I hope I’ll be able to go longer, and see what happens.
I’m a 56 years old female, and I do not lose much weight with keto, except when I’m fasting, though I do not think I indulge myself too much on keto food. I’m afraid my metabolism has been impaired with too many diets in the past. .

[flipflop]

I am no expert, but I can tell you what my experience has been like. The best way to lose weight has been to focus on being Keto/Fat adapted for me. I had to build a spread sheet and track everything I eat to make sure I was getting close to 85% fat everyday. In the beginning by cutting carbs (before I knew about ketosis) I lost weight, then I plateaued. Then I learned about the Ketogenic diet and lost some more weight but plateaued, So I fasted for 8 days and lost 17lbs. After my fast I gained back 4lbs, and then plateaued. After looking things over I became convinced I was had never been fully Keto adapted and I think fasting may have further delayed my full keto adaption. So I focused on getting my 85% daily fat in (10% pro, 5% carbs). Now I am losing about 1lbs a day again and I am eating about 2500-3000 calories per day. I dont think anyone will be surprised to find out that getting adapted is harder for some than others, I think may situation may have been some what tougher than average. I have been over 300lbs for more than 10 years, maybe about 15 or so. I think this made my transition from a carb burner to a fat burner take longer than average. I think I needed to really buckle down and make sure I was not eating too much protein. Let me try to quote some Ketone levels, but keep in mind that I don’t think high ketone levels can be directly tied to faster weight loss. My highest breath ketone so far has been 23.8 ppm the day after I ended my 8 day fast, I think it was so high because I was not burning up all the ketones my body made because I started eating again, during my eight day fast my breath ketones were from 3.7-18.9 and they did sort of ramp up at the end. The last 5 days I have have been doing a bullet-proof diet and my breath ketones have been 5.4-15.3 . I also still test my blood and urine and there is no real obvious connection.

[flipflop]

As an interesting side note, I have a friend who is on a ketogenic diet (he got me started) he has lost 60 lbs in the time I lost 40 without fasting and my blood ketones are consistently higher than his, on the flip side his blood sugar is consistently lower than mine even though we eat almost exactly the same thing, kind of weird right? Now he recently tried fasting, he went 8 days and then gained it all back right away, where as I only gained 4lbs back out of 17 lbs I lost on an 8 day fast. He had a much harder time with hunger on his fast then I did. My buddy was about 50lbs less than me when we started and he is about 6 years younger and his job is far more physically active, but I spend more time walking just for the sake of walking.

[flipflop]

I don’t know if it matters but I still use the old Java App with Ketonix unit instead of the new ‘Rainbow’ dial style one pictured above in this thread.

[JasonCordier]

Thank your response, that helps me a lot. What blood Ketone values were you getting in that 5.4 to 15.3 range? Much appreciated, and thank you. Measurement should be secondary to action.

[flipflop]

here is a sample of tests from my record.
I know most of us are driven by the numbers to some extent, seeing higher ketone levels is a reward as it were but from what I read higher numbers with in the nutritional ketosis range does not necessarily mean something better is happening. Like I mentioned previously, my buddy with lower blood ketone levels lost weight much faster, so if weight loss is used as secondary comparison then high blood ketone levels are kind of irrelevant.
If you think about it Ketones in the Blood, Urine, and Lungs all accumulate and are used under different circumstances but all of them can be indicators of being in a state of Ketosis. I would like to find a “Unifying Theory” that correlated the 3 values, lets face it in the long run the Ketonix unit is the most cost effective and the most convenient, but the blood ketone is the best understood and the most specific along with being the most expensive. To make things more complicated I think Blood Glucose levels are part of the picture at least for me.

I like to keep in mind that if you begin a ketogenic diet with the intention of losing 20 lbs it is very different for the person who wants to lose 200 lbs, if you have been over weight for 2 years it is very different than if you have been overweight for 20 years. Becoming keto or fat adapted can be quick and nearly effortless for some people while other it may take 4-5 months and meticulous dietary scrutiny. I have listened to about 15 books, countless videos and of course read many websites on the subject. My initial impression was that it would be much easier to become keto adapted, but as pointed out be coaches like Stephanie Person some people need to go to the Nth Degree to become fully adapted. She also stresses becoming and staying adapted as a priority over losing weight.

The one clue to my reluctant adaptation other than slow weight loss was the fact that after 3-4 months of low cab, high fat eating my morning glucose was was still over 100 (usually about 106). Even when I stopped eating by 2pm my fasting glucose was higher than many experts would expect (and yes not everyone agrees). So I started charting my food, every bite, once I had a good spread sheet started it was not to bad, bulletproof coffee also seem to help. I also decided to do another long fast and my morning glucose is now 70 and in the afternoon it is about 66, this is the type of range that is more indicative of keto adaptation according to some an seems to be very true in my case. Any ways I have probably begun to stray off topic a bit. I wish everyone the best of luck with their effort in to ketosis.

[flipflop]

It seems as though Acetone is both a byproduct of Ketone consumption and ketone body that can be used as fuel, I think this dual identity has lead caused the confusion.

[ArgentSilver]

One thing that may help to know is that I believe older Ketonix units measured something they called “ketonix units”, which I guess just gave you a relative measurement. The KetonixUSB for 2017 measures in ppm of acetone, and the manual says that the range for nutritional ketosis is 4-30 ppm, which they show as the green light. 30-80 ppm is high ketosis (yellow light) and over 80 is very high ketosis (red light). If you are diabetic, the red range could be a warning of impending ketoacidosis, and you should check blood sugar right away. If you are not diabetic, the red range implies that your body might go into “starvation” mode and lower your metabolic rate (not a desirable outcome), so that tells you to ease up on the ketogenic eating.

[JasonCordier]

Thanks for that! Very useful. I had a carb holiday for a day, and went into a 90 hour fast. This time I was at 16 ppm after 36 hours, and 28 ppm at the end of day two. For me I found zone 2 running greatly helped me get to a higher reading. Also getting a better feel for some proteins and sweeteners that don’t do so well for me. It is all coming together. I do wonder what I will get it up to when I fast again for three days after my two days and one night back doing Keto eating. Thanks again!

[JasonCordier]

Fantastic. Thank you.

[JasonCordier]

My 90 hour fast after a 1 day high carb, high calorie day. Amazing ho quickly I got back there. Is it a case of the longer you do it, the quicker you switch over again?

[flipflop]

I am on a 7th day of a Fast,
this is what my numbers look like.
The Yellow Band is Urine ketones, Blue is Ketonix, Red Blood Ketone, Green Glucose, Tan is Urine PH. Each day is separated by the black line, the first day I had no data.
I am almost out of Blood Test Strips and may not reorder any time soon. I have mostly been focused on my blood sugar staying low anyways. It took me a long time (over 4 months) to get my glucose down from 106-90 to 71-60. I think it just took me that long to get fully fat adapted. I was eating less than 20 grams of carbohydrate a day. The last week of eating I really crammed the fat in and ate 3000-4000 calories a day. I also made almond flour keto bread which seemed to put weight on. So it was a good time for a fast and my glucose went down and the weight came off. I lost over 14 lbs in the first 6 days and I expect to lose about 2 pounds more per day as long as I stay fasting. This fast is going really good and I have a lot of weight to loose so I hope to keep going for a while. I am very grateful.

[JasonCordier]

Thanks for the record keeping and updates. Nice work on the fasting too!

[Kansasdaisy]

My husband and I were recently gifted a Ketonix USB and just started using it. All of these posts are extremely helpful in helping us determine if we are testing accurately, if our tests are within normal range, and for comparison. Thank you all!!! We are just starting to gather data to make decisions on what/when we eat. I have been keto for almost 10 months while my husband has been keto for only 11 weeks. We are wondering if there will be differences in our measurements simply from the difference in time in keto? Will the amount of weight we have to lose significantly impact our numbers? (I’m closing in on the last 15-20 pounds, my hubby would like to lose 70-75 pounds…)

[flipflop]

The best thing I can tell you about what I learned is make sure you are
keto adapted, stay in Ketosis and work the blood sugar down. The first 10
pounds or so comes off easy. Taking more off and getting down 75 lbs
requires doing it right for most of us, as your body adjusts to the new
full time ketosis your blood sugar should taper off while your Ketones
should stay with in a constant range unless you happen to do some super
demanding physical stuff, then it may dip and rise again. I brake plateaus
and accelerate weight loss with fasting, right now I aim for Keto diet for
4 weeks, fast for 10 days.

[mp0363]

Just got mine today. Pretty blue one. I’ve been in nutritional ketosis for 6 weeks. Today I have done a number of readings on the ketonix and all in the blue. I am breathing per instructions and to the point of death on complete and full exhalations. All in the blue.

My finger stick is 1.5 and 1.6 as I wanted to be sure it wasn’t something I had eaten that kicked me out of ketosis. I am returning mine. Glad they have a 30 day policy, although the shipping was $20 here and likely at least that to return. Expensive trial and error