Ketones Less Over Time?


(Kathryn) #1

I have been low carb (30-40 carbs) for over 4 years now and was Keto for about 5 years before this. I use the Keto Mojo to check my blood sugar and have used the Lingo app to watch my blood sugar levels. I am not diabetic, but now at 63 notice that I am more insulin resistant.
I work out 5-6 days a week and do some resistance training 2-3 times a week. So all in all a really healthy and happy person.
My concern is that I don’t see ketones more than .3 in the morning. I will check sometimes at night and they are about the same. If I fast for 15-16 hours I may see it go up to .5. I do have a thyroid issue and I wonder if that can make a difference?
My ketones have never really been more than .7 ever!
Does being keto or low carb for almost 10 years change how my body is processing ketones, so I am more efficient and won’t see the higher ketone readings?


(Bob M) #2

That’s fairly common I’m lucky to get 0.3 in the mornings, most mornings are lower. Like you, I barely get over 0.5 even at night, though my ketones tend to get higher toward night. And to get much over 0.5, I have to fast a while.

As far as I know, I don’t have a thyroid issue.

I think the body gets “efficient” with ketones and doesn’t overproduce them. I think your body is better at matching output to demand. Or that’s my guess.

This is something I made a while ago to show what has happened:


(Kathryn) #3

Tracking like you are is a great idea. I don’t want to chase ketones, but sure do like what they do for health and keeping brain fog at bay.


(KM) #4

I’m reading Rethinking Diabetes, by Gary Taubes. So far I’m not sure if he’s presenting old theories he’s going to debunk later, or useful ideas to hang onto, he’s all over the place. However, he did mention this, which, if I understand correctly and it’s true, gave me pause.

When you fast a fat adapted, low glycogen storing body (in other words, someone who’s usually low carb and doesn’t have glycogen stored) that has extra fat on it, the body draws from the fat stores and creates ketones for fuel. (Perhaps,) when you fast a low-glycogen storing body without extra fat on it, the body draws from protein stores (i.e. muscle), converting them to glucose fuel rather than ketones.

If the second sentence is true, it could explain why those of us with normal-low body fat experience low ketone levels or rising glucose rather than the expected higher ketones when we fast.

In other words, maybe the closer you get to an optimal weight, the less enthusiastic your body is to deplete the remaining fat, hence the lower ketones.


(Bob M) #5

That’s the one thing I don’t know. Let’s say you feel better with higher ketones. When you’re now getting 0.1-0.3 in the morning, it is possible to get higher ketones?

You could try lower protein, higher fat, though I have not done this in any strict way to see what would happen.

MCT oils can increase ketones. I do take these at times, but I’ve not taken any real data.

A lot of this would be better if we in the US had the continuous ketone monitors others can get in Europe. That would make it a lot easier.


#6

And drop carbs to near zero like three g,my last week was like that. I like high ketones feel plus I like them as fuel for my wrecked heart.

This is me yesterday afternoon. Glucose was 90.


#7

So? Your ketone levels don’t matter, onlt that they’re there. Ketone numbers don’t correlate with fat loss so it’s pointless to care about them, at 30-40g carbs you’re still very much keto, the 20g thing isn’t some magical line.

Of course it does, that’s literally your metabolic rate, that doesn’t change because you’re keto, there’s no shortage of people that have watched their Thyroid function decline after long term low carb, I’m one of them. Assuming your problem is being hypo, then the question is why? Are you intentionally not doing anything about it, because that’s very easily corrected Or is it one of the many (majority) of quacks that ignores it because it’s not totally dead? Do you know your TSH, T3, T4 levels?


(Joey) #8

Yes, that would be my strong suspicion based on what you’ve shared (and in agreement with comments above).

Curious: What makes you conclude you’re becoming more insulin resistant?


#9

But ketones are burned fat,made by liver. No ketones, no burned fat. Numbers can vary by person a lot but I have definitely found a correlation.

Blood ketone numbers tell you how much ketone reserve you have. Heart may use them up real quick when you start moving. I like my reserve.

I need blood numbers closer to 3 to lose fat. If they drop below 1,5 the scale does not move.

Also,around 20 g carbs per day is goodbye ketosis for me. Ten is much better. At 30 g I could be eating candy as well.

We have to figure out our own ways instead of reading what works for someone else. So don´t take this as advice either.

I´m at two months right now but I´ve been doing keto for 21 years,on and off. Mostly on. It was Low Carb and “Warrior” back then,after Atkins.


(Kathryn) #10

That is very interesting. I was wondering if as we are more fat adapted and closer to a healthy body weight we might notice less rise in ketones. I did check today, as I have been trying to lower my carb counts and get more movement, that mid morning they were up to .6. So maybe some of it is that I can get more ketones with movement. I was also fasting for about 16 hours, not super long but that factors into it too.

I appreciate your insights!


(Kathryn) #11

I am getting older (63) and notice that I am not able to eat the way I did ten years ago. I am very sensitive to carbs. I have used a Lingo twice (CGM for purchase) and a friend had a DEX7 that I tried.
My spikes are high with small amounts of carbs.
Could this also be that my body is not used to carbs, being low carb for so long? Possible…
But movement is key for me. I like to exercise.
I also know that my thyroid issue, Hashimoto’s is part of the issue. I have never seen anything over a 1.0 for ketones!


(Joey) #12

Do the spikes resolve quickly or linger for hours? I would have thought you’d become more insulin sensitive without constant carbs, not resistant. :man_shrugging:


#13

Makes sense when your body gets to its ideal weight it will take energy from where it feels is less required. Although not on a strict Keto diet anymore it is my base. A daily staple High fats virgin olive oil, Protein, lots of healthy veggies, broccoli sprouts, blueberries, strawberries pumpkin seeds, teaspoon sardines, oats and garlic/onions/mushrooms eating extra carbs like bread or potatoes rice does not effect staying in Keto. It seems in my case a base in quality foods is the trick. Pouring some virgin olive oil on almost every meal sure may seem extreme it keeps those fats on top of my importance list.


(Michael Dowd) #14

My meter hardly ever goes above .3 and I strictly eat less that 20 grams of carbs a day. Like you I try to stay active. I believe what Bob M states is correct, “I think the body gets “efficient” with ketones and doesn’t overproduce them”.


(Kathryn) #15

Isn’t that amazing? I guess I thought that everyone was getting these amazing amounts of ketones. I think having an efficient body can be a good thing. :grinning:
Thank you for making me feel better about this! I have not been one to chase the numbers (except the scale, and that is not always helpful either.)


(Kathryn) #16

You know, it doesn’t stay high long, depending on the carb quality and quantity, I eat. If it is something with honey and oats it stays up there. (Protein balls with peanut butter, oats, honey, and chocolate chips that I make for my daughter and husband.) I think being older makes a difference as I am now 63 and my insulin is more sensitive than a younger person.


(Kathryn) #17

I have been on thyroid medication for about 30 years. First just T4 then about 9 years ago found I had high RT3 levels. So cut back on T4 and added T3 in. I am at a good place now and so thankful for having a FB group that talked about Reverse T3. Some doctors will not test for it.
Being aware I have Hashimoto’s also helps as I have adjusted my diet to help the inflammation levels.


#18

It’s literally terrible! Forget about RT3, half of them don’t even test regular T3 or FT3, they load people up on T4 until they have side effects from it, drop their TSH then pretend that means they’re “hyper” while they’re still hypo and pull back on the meds that weren’t working in the first place.

My doc used to test everything, but she sold her practice so I went back to rogue and just doing it myself now. People like me get real screwed because it takes a lot to keep me running right. I’m current taking 100mcg of T3 and even on that my FT3 is up top, but still in range at 4.2

No (other) doc other than an optimization doc would even consider giving somebody that much T3 (or realistically T3 at all). It’s criminal. I talked to one doc abour taking over for the one I lost, told them I ran best with my TSH at 1 or less and FT3 top 3rd of range, NOPE!

That’s OK, I’ll doc myself!