Ketones in Urine

(Loren) #1

I’m testing my ketones in urine.

I know this is gross but - people drink urine for healing purposes. Would drinking my ketone-rich urine reintroduce those ketones into my body that I released and help me burn more fat?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

No, not at all. The ketones are partial metabolites of fat, as charcoal is partially burned wood. A cell generally has a preference for either fatty acids or ketones, and won’t generally metabolise both.

(Loren) #3

So, I am supplementing with exogenous ketones. Are those helping or hurting my fat loss?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

If all you’re testing is urine, you would never know. Since the ketones in urine are almost exclusively acetoacetate, and there is no other direct test for them, you would not know whether or not drinking them back would just result in pissing them out again. But, who knows, while they’re in transit some might get used or convert to β-hydroxybutyrate and result in a net gain.

@PaulL I think the acetoacetate excreted in urine is the complete molecule. So it might very well be reusable. But how to test is the problem. Oh, I think I missed your point. Yes, ketones/fatty acids preference.

[EDIT]
@KetoFastingBro an interesting proposition. As I think @PaulL is explaining, however, ketones themselves are a result of fat metabolism, not a stimulant to it. When you’re in ketosis you are already metabolizing fat and generating ketones as a result. Reintroducing excreted ketones might result in some of those ‘exogenous’ ketones getting metabolized instead of an equal energy value of fat. So it won’t help you ‘burn more fat’. The best it might do is bump up your ketone levels.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

The key point is that extra ketones don’t increase fat burning, because they are remnants of fatty acids that have already left the adipose tissue. Just as exogenous ketones either get wasted or substitute for stored fatty acids that might otherwise have been metabolised.

And apparently, while it is customary to measure acetone in breath, acetoacetate in urine, and β-hydroxybutyrate in blood serum, apparently all three ketone bodies are measurable in all three locations. I have read a couple of studies where the outcome being measured for was β-hydroxybutyrate measured in urine, and another one where acetone in the bloodstream was being measured for its effect on the brain (quite a positive one, apparently).

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

This might be a stretch, but if you think of urine as a ketone-enriched exogenous beverage…

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

I should probably point out that the fat-loss caused by a ketogenic diet is actually in some senses a side-effect. It results from the fact that lowering insulin levels sufficiently to permit ketogenesis also permits fatty acids to leave the adipose tissue to be metabolised, either into ketones in the liver, or for energy in muscle. And assuming, of course, that there is excess stored fat that the body can dispense with. This is why we often need to point out that a ketogenic diet is not a weight-loss diet, but rather a weight-normalisation diet.

Furthermore, we are learning that, in addition to being useful fuels for cells equipped to metabolise them, the three ketone bodies also serve as powerful hormones with profound epigenetic effects (to paraphrase Dr. Phinney). Β-hydroxybutyrate appears to be the most-studied, but I have read articles about epigenetic effects of acetone and aceoacetate, as well.

#8

That doesn’t even make sense at the most basic level – why would adding external ketones cause the need for more stored fat to be used up? If anything, even if you could introduce those ketones directly into your bloodstream, it should reduce the need for the body to make its own ketones.

Not only that, but the ketones in your urine are being excreted because the body couldn’t use them, so it wouldn’t even need them.

#9

In the past, that’s been compared to pouring a bottle of sweat over your body and claiming you got a better workout.

(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #10

Re: Exo Ketones

First of all, there’s a difference between nutritional ketosis or ketogenesis (the creation of ketone bodies in the liver by following the keto diet) and ketonaemia (the presence of ketone bodies in the blood). Taking EK promotes ketonaemia, not nutritional ketosis.

So when people say “drink this stuff and you’ll be in ketosis”, what they really say is that after you drink EK and measure your blood ketone level after an hour or so, you will see the presence of ketones. However, it doesn’t guarantee that you are in nutritional ketosis and stay there.
Total Gimmick and a waste of money IMO.

(Allie) #11

They’re making your pee more expensive, that’s about it.

#12

Nope, you’d just be a person drinking pee. Higher ketones don’t equal faster fat burn.

(Allie) #13

Crazy expensive pee

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

For anyone interested, or just curious, about going down the rabbit hole:

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