Ketoers vs vegans, who 'kills' the most sentient beings?

#1

Sorry if this has already been ‘done’ to death or is posted in the wrong area (I am typing from my phone as I cannot use computer screens hence cannot utilise any search facility etc, apologies).

Anyway, I am getting increasingly annoyed by the amount of vegans telling everyone that the whole world needs to go vegan to save the planet (amongst other things) and that I am cruel to animals by being keto.

As someone who was veggie and or vegan from the age of six until about 2 years ago I know all their arguments but hate it being forced down everyone’s throats.

What interests me most though, from an ethical standpoint, is the difference between how many sentient animals are killed during agricultural processes for crop farming to feed a vegan vs how many animals actually die to keep me on track with my keto lifestyle.

I purchase grass fed free range meat and free range eggs, locally produced as far as possible. Great pasture land all around my area and loads cows can be seen roaming free in the fields around here, enjoying their lives.

I grow a lot of my own veg and buy local for most of the rest too. Avocados and coconut oil are my main downfall in terms of carbon footprint/air miles.

So anyway, by my calculations (this is where I need help as I may have my maths all wrong) a typical grass fed free range cow (ie one sentient animal death) will give around 100kg of pure edible meat (plus bones, organ meats etc that I can use for broth or to feed my dog, hide for leather, clothing, etc etc, nothing needs to be wasted).

If I am 55kg and my protein requirements mean I should eat a maximum of 1g per kg body weight per day of meat, then 55gx365 days gives me just over 20000g absolute max meat intake per year. I will round this down to 20000 to take into account eating less protein some days and also fasting days and I am probably still well over estimating.

20000g is 20kg so in one year I consume only one fifth of a cow to fulfil my protein requirements. Hence going keto means I only need to kill one fifth of an animal each year or one cow every five years?

Compare this to the huge number or rodents, small mammals, snakes, lizards, nesting birds, bees, insects and other animals killed for agricultural harvesting of non perennial crops/grains etc for vegans, especially things like soy which wipes out huge areas of previously wildlife abundant natural habitats.

And these vegans are calling me the unethical, immoral one!!! :thinking:

(Carl Keller) #2

Eating a cow that comes from down the street is better for the environment than eating an avocado that has come from across the planet. I suppose if you are a enviro conscience vegan only eating local produce would solve that trick but year round local produce is not an option in most places.

Here’s an article that talks about resources per calorie that I found interesting. I’m not anti-vegan but I am very good friends with meat. So I take both these worlds with a grain of salt, literally.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #3

I freakin’ love this post. Thanks, made my day.

#4

Thankyou. It was actually a vegan extremist (even when I was a vegan I found these people embarrassing and frustrating) on an ecobricks thread that wound me up today and got me wondering. I am all for doing what we each can for the planet but I am also all for good health and long term sustainability and connection with our own local communities. Thankyou, I will have a good read of that article now.

(Alan Williamson) #5

The vegan diet is not about results. It is all about puritanism, narcissism, selfies, self-worship, and virtue-signalling. A person has to “convert” to veganism. Further, they have to take supplements to be “healthy”. WTF!!! It doesn’t make any sense.

(Chris) #6

Which ever eats itself to death kills the most sentient beings. Hint, it’s not the meat eaters.

#7

Hi,

I like your thinking, but I am not sure about your maths. :slight_smile:

If you are eating 1 g of protein per kg body weight, and that is 55g of protein, then yes, that is approx 20000g of protein = 20kg of pure protein.

But that works out to a lot more than 20kg of meat.
This is because your beef is only about 27g protein for a 100g of steak. The rest is basically water, fat, vits and mins

So if we assume that the average piece of cow is approx 25% protein, and you need 20 kg of protein, then you probably need to eat approx 80kg of beef in a year to meet your protein requirements, assuming you are just eating cow.

At least, that is my understanding.
Happy to be corrected by anyone with a better Numbers Head than me.

(Bunny) #8

Hmmmmm! Tropical Rainforests in South America, Africa and other tropical locations around the world ring any bells? Vegans must eat I guess? Poor little froggies!

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Finger pointing is on equal footing (blame gaming is nolo contendere):

  1. An average of 137 species of life forms are driven into extinction every day in the world’s tropical rainforests. The forces of destruction such as logging, cattle ranching have all contributed to the loss of millions of acres of tropical rainforest. Animals and people alike lose their homes when trees are cut down. …More
  1. Rain forests are the predominant natural vegetation throughout the wet tropics. Rain forests are being eliminated for timber, minerals, agriculture, and human settlement. Other motives, such as the desire to conquer nature or to control unoccupied territory, also are factors in deforestation. …More
(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #9

Not quite. 20kg of cow is not 20kg of protein. It’s about 7g protein to the ounce, which is 28g, so 20kg of cow is roughly 5kg of protein. To get your 20kg of protein for the year, it’s really about 80kg of Beef or 4/5th of the cow.

And that’s okay, too.

(Carl Keller) #10

If I were a cannibal I would eat vegans. They are grass fed and the most organic choice.

(Running from stupidity) #11

But organic is a con (so it works well here, good call :slight_smile:

(Carl Keller) #12

Save the planet… eat a vegan.

(Bunny) #13

Boating accidents (adds more flavor) are always more juicier & tender!

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(Carl Keller) #14

@atomicspacebunny… Hahaha! That’s good stuff! I’m not a vegan hater BTW. I just don’t like the preachy ones. :slight_smile:

(Bunny) #15

Scare them preachy ones with bacon!

Scaring Vegans with Bacon - Ultra Spiritual Life episode 84

(Carl Keller) #16

This guy is great. I can’t get out of my head when he kicks the chair out under from the vegan girl as she was sitting down with her bowl of salad (in the last video). How dare her eat his food’s food. :smiley:

(Bunny) #17

I know that part cracked up :joy::rofl::joy::rofl::rofl::joy::rofl:

(Clara Teixeira) #18

I struggle with this debate. I use permaculture methods to grow veggies and if my family only ate veggies I could easily grow enough for us to last a year with minimal irrigation. Animals can be much more work and I do find at times I need to grain them to give them a boost healthwise. Chickens need grains and seeds daily because I do not have affordable access to enough bugs for protein. I have fed them boiled rabbit and beef liver but it is hard to keep that up long term! (We live in a cold climate and free ranging is not a viable option year round.) I like to think that our family’s non-consumption of grains compensates for the grains we feed our farm animals but ultimately we are still a part of ruining wildlife habitat by feeding them. We do what we can to foster wildlife on our little farm. I like referring to the phrase, “leave the edges wild” when approaching land ownership. The deer, grouse, rabbits, and even coyotes bed down and find food on the edges of our place. It’s the best I can do.