Keto vs Atkins

conversationstarters
(What The Fast?!) #1

Someone asked me “what’s the difference between Atkins and Keto? Isn’t Atkins knows for being bad for you?”

I didn’t know the answer to either question. Little help? I want to be able to answer knowledgeably.

(Tom Seest) #2

Both are low carb. Atkins recommended more lean meats (protein), but many speculate this was due to the Anti-Fat nature of the times he lived in. Where, most Keto people don’t shy away from fat.

(John) #3

Keto is essentially the induction phase of Atkins. It was designed to last 2 weeks because most people thought it was too hard to sustain for any longer. The only real difference between Keto and those first 2 weeks of Atkins is they recommended high protein.
Phase 2 allows you to start adding fruit back and more nuts and vegetables.
Phase 3 is basically tweak until you are happy, add more carbs slowly until you get to goal
Phase 4 is maintenance, eat all the healthy carbs you can without gaining.

(jketoscribe) #4

Keto is essentially Atkins induction–20 g of carbs, and depending on which school of thought you follow–high fat, unlimited fat, or a certain percentage of fat, plus moderate protein. Unlike Atkins there’s no “carb ladder” to gradually increase carbs after “induction”. It’s 20 g of carbs per day forever.

Many of us on keto do care about the QUALITY of food (back in Atkins day they really didn’t care if the fat was processed oils, Crisco, or real fats) but keto is really agnostic when it comes to food quality.

And no, Atkins wasn’t inherently “bad” for you, nor is keto. Muggles may think so but that’s because they fear fat. And I do think quality of food is a factor in how “bad” or “good” keto or Atkins is.

(John Somsky aka KetoGrinder) #5

I think if Atkins were still alive he would likely be a proponent of Keto now. There is some evidence that lower protein and higher fat than Atkins required (aka Keto) is better for you overall.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #6

Keto is Atkins style induction.

I started doing Atkins to move into LCHF last Aug. The New Atkins program involves what they call a food ladder.
Phase 1, Induction:
Rung 1: Foundation vegetables: leafy greens and other low-carb vegetables
Rung 2: Dairy foods high in fat and low in carbs: cream, sour cream, and most hard cheeses
Phase 2, Ongoing Weight Loss:
Rung 3: Nuts and seeds (but not chestnuts)
Rung 4: Berries, cherries, and melon (but not watermelon)
Rung 5: Whole milk yogurt and fresh cheeses, such as cottage cheese and ricotta
Rung 6: Legumes, including chickpeas, lentils, and the like.
Rung 7: Tomato and vegetable juice “cocktail” (plus more lemon and lime juice)
Phases 3 and 4, Pre-Maintenance and Lifetime Maintenance:
Rung 8: Other fruits (but not fruit juices or dried fruits)
Rung 9: Higher-carb vegetables, such as winter squash, carrots, and peas
Rung 10: Whole grains

They do stress that if you have an issue with any step on the ladder you should not eat the foods on that step, but continue to try items on the other levels. That was helpful for me because I learned I can eat, some cheese, some nuts and berries, but not the grains, legumes, and higher carb fruits. And once I go over 50 net carbs, I won’t lose any weight. Since I am still in weight loss mode, that was an important lesson for me. I am back around 15-25 net carbs per day, that plus IFing and these longer fasts are getting me to my goal weight.

I do have issues with the Atkins company, the pre packaged foods are no better than WW or Jenny Craig. I make my own fat bombs and shakes, and I have plenty of meals that I can pre cook for emergencies, like when I am too lazy to cook.

Spoiler alerts used so Brenda doesn’t come down hard on me again.:imp:

(eat more) #7

i think atkins got a bad rap because a lot of ppl just latched on to the misconception of “you just eat all the fat you want” and never actually investigated what it really entailed…same as what a lot of ppl think about keto

i had a client say “yeah and dr atkins died super young because of his diet…heart attack!”
i laughed a little and said “he slipped on a patch of ice and conked his melon at the age of 72”

(jketoscribe) #8

I agree. It’s annoying that people claim the Atkins diet is so unhealthy. It was up to date with the best knowledge of his times. He published his first book in the early 90’s when everyone still thought that fat was mostly bad (hence the emphasis on protein because the public went ape s**t over the suggestions to eat fat) and that the “better” fats were polyunsaturated processed oils (though he didn’t fear saturated fats, he didn’t advise against the processed oils, either). If Atkins was treating patients and writing books now, there would be a whole different approach. I think he would lean more toward keto for certain.

(Todd Allen) #9

I had a negative impression of Atkins before I actually knew anything of him. But then I watched this debate video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCpP40ZHqI and was impressed by his science minded evidence based approach. The diet he recommended was a healthy keto diet. He did not push a “high protein diet” but did encourage the consumption of animal foods and leafy greens and limiting fruit and starches.

He and his diet were attacked by Dean Ornish, John MacDougall and others in their anti-animal foods crusade. They were the ones repeatedly calling it “high protein”, “high cholesterol”, “unbalanced”, “a recipe for heart disease” and many other scary sounding labels while ignoring any and all science and evidence that didn’t agree with their vegan mission.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #10

Actually he updated his earlier book in the 90’s the original was written in the 70s. He was ahead of his time both times however, and things had gotten worse since the original. I remember my aunt not eating bread and potatoes when she put on a few pounds, and she always had a good result. That was the 50s, and she ate butter then as well.

(Todd Allen) #11

Wikipedia is my GO TO resource for these sorts of comparisons. Unfortunately I’m an idiot.

Wikipedia DESCRIPTION of each diet:

The Atkins diet is a kind of low-carbohydrate fad diet.

The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet that in medicine is used primarily to treat difficult-to-control (refractory) epilepsy in children.

Wikipedia EFFICACY of each diet:

There is only weak evidence that the Atkins diet is effective in helping people achieve short-term weight loss, or that it is better than not dieting at all in the longer term.[3][4] One review found that the Atkins diet led to 0.1% to 2.9% more weight loss at one year compared to a control group which received behavioural counselling.[3] The diet suffers from a boring food choice and may increase the risk of heart disease.

The ketogenic diet reduces seizure frequency by more than 50% in half of the patients who try it and by more than 90% in a third of patients.[3] Three-quarters of children who respond do so within two weeks, though experts recommend a trial of at least three months before assuming it has been ineffective.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #12

Someone needs to edit that entry. Both of these are low fat, high carb party line comments.

At least we know the truth.

I started with Atkins, the induction phase is 20 net grams or less as per most keto plans. After that you slowly add back in things like nuts, legumes, etc to see if YOU can handle them and in what quantity. Atkins lead me to keto which lead me to lchf and fasting and I finally got in my normal weight range after decades in obesity and over weight ranges. I don’t think I have ever been healthier in my life either. And I get to eat the greatest foods.

Keto to me is 20 g of carb or under, eat enough protein for your body’s needs, and fat to satiety. Eat when hungry, fast when you are not hungry. Since becoming fat adapted, I eat keto when I break a fast, and lchf most days. I use IF and extended fasts to stay where I want to be.

(Tony Battelle) #13

Dr Atkins, pioneered what today we call The Protein diet. At the time, this idea flew in the face of the low calorie diet being promoted by the American Heart Association and the US government. The diet was designed as a better weight loss alternative and Atkins did a considerable amount of research and science before ever publishing his book. We can thank Dr Atkins as a pioneer for waking us up in regard to how our bodies naturally respond to different types of energy sources (carbs, proteins, fat). Since then, much additional research has been done on the subject of diet, and the low-calorie diet has been mostly debunked by current science, yet persists due to lobbying efforts by the corporate food industry, which wants us to eat, and snack constantly.
So, to answer your question, how is Keto different? Or for that matter, the paleolithic diet. Bith these newer diets, are based on healthy natural eating more in line with how our bodies are designed to process food. (we were never meant to exist primarily on carbs like in the AHA, and FDA food pyramid.)
Yes you can lose weight on both Paleo and KETO, but this is not the primary reason to adopt them, rather it is about feeding our bodies what they were designed to eat. Not all calories are created equal. Fat can be used by your cells directly, while carbs and protien, require insulin to feed the cells.