I’ve not seen that link before. Do you have some sources for that?
I wonder if your daughter would be affected by The Magic Pill. There is a former vegan on it that realized that even her veggie garden required dead animals to be healthy. I can personally assure her that my free-range chickens are happy and more than happy to let me eat their eggs. Grass-fed beef is much the same. They are happy, healthy animals who don’t have fear of dying because they can’t anticipate like we can.
I appreciate The thought. I’m trying to sneak in some nutrition education by suggesting she listen to STEM podcasts.
Check out The China Study, T. Colin Campbell and his research on casein, inflammation and cancer.
I don’t have time to look this up but wanted to mention: From what I remember, there is a study (at least one) linking casein to cancer, but it’s in the context of removing all the fat from dairy products, i.e. mice/rats fed isolated casein along with … (I don’t remember exactly what else they were fed, but I do remember that when I saw what those poor creatures were fed in that study, I stopped worrying about dairy and cancer risk).
Exactly as @applezz13 mentioned, the “China Study” is a great comprehensive study, which every vegan knows. Basically, what they did was conducting a long study of cancer and hearth disease rates in various villages in China over a long time. The villages in the north where people consume animal products are much higher than the ones in south where people consume plant based products. China is a huge country, so we are talking about great distances that were by the time that the study was done, not interconnected in anyway, making this study pretty interesting.
Here’s a short summary of the study of the findings:
There are a lot of criticism about the China Study, but I confess that I still feel weird consuming animal based when I think about these findings…
Yes, and I had wondered whether there would be something substantial beyond that.
There was no causal link established in this study just an FYI. Basically he said they eat less or no dairy and meat and they have less cancer etc, but they also ate less sugar and I am sure less of a lot of things that we in the West ate at that time. This study had a lot in common with the seven country study by Ancel Keys in the way it was carried out and the links that the author made with different diseases.
You can also see that as the consumption of sugar and highly processed foods has increased in China that their metabolic disease rates have also risen.
Poor science all the way around.
Thank you for sharing your story as well @applezz13
Great job on the dropping waist size. I love this effect of Keto.
I can definitely see myself going back to vegetarian in the future, but not vegan
Vegan done right is a very healthy way to live, i dropped 83 points of my cholesterol in 3 week going vegan. All my allergies went away and my BP dropped and it wasnt even high. BUT you have to eat mostly plants and NOT be a “carb-a-tarian” with the heavy starch foods. Non white carbs you can eat in abundance, but the white and yellow ones need to be eaten responsibly. You can also be a vegan and live off Doritos, Oreos and other bagged junk…which is soooo far from healthy. If she is committed to the lifestyle just encourage her to eat whole foods way more than bagged and boxed things and to make sure she either eats nutritional yeast every day, or takes a b12 supplement. Also make sure she eats some health fats, or she will have trouble absorbing vitamins A and D (all things I learned in my last 6.5 yrs )
I have to say I wondered about casein in the absence of sugar and if it has the same effect. I am very much enjoying my re-acquaintance with cheese (it was the thing I missed the most about going vegan) and would enjoy keeping it if I could find enough evidence suggesting it is not inflammatory, but I have yet to find that.
As a foodie, I love this topic. Am thinking another thing to consider is that inflammation is frequently a matter of long term microbiome derangement, some combo of bacterial and enzyme levels. A healthy & strong gut can digest appropriately prepared real food, if needed, imho - including raw milk and meat, as seen in the traditional Masai, Inuit, and Mongolian nomadic peoples.
Comparing the traditional east and west, and global north with global south - it’s apparent that the use of spices as digestives (ginger, chilli, cumin, turmeric to name a few) - and, in the mediterranean region, wine as an aliment with food - has tremendously facilitated dairy digestion. It does so by enhancing enzyme production and/or boosting the role of the peptide hormone gastrin which starts to flow within seconds of a sip of wine or blast of ginger & chilli landing in the stomach. This is according to the extensive western research by Salvatore Lucia MD and others in decades before him, and in the east, the yogic/ayurvedic dietary practices which consider the cultivation of a robust digestive capacity the gateway of all heath.
Personally, I know there’s a huge difference between raw cheeses and pasteurized, and for example the ultrapasteurized heavy cream. For me, if it’s not raw or doesn’t have lots of good live cultures either I can have only a wee bit (like a tablespoon of cream in my morning hot drink), or I must have it with Ginger supplementation or other spices or wine. If I have it without, it sits in my stomach for HOURS…
I recently finished reading keto-paleo nutritionist & personal trainer Nora Gelgaudus’s book Primal Mind Primal Body and she’s a big fan of raw dairy.
Hi I love your story! I just wanted to add into the group that when I started keto I did it on a classic meat-based diet I eat bacon eggs meat the whole thing. I got the results I was looking for. Now I have switched over to what I feel is a healthier way of living. I am still solid in ketosis but I do it plant-based. My fat sources come from olive oil avocado nuts. I do a lot of keto baking with almond flour and coconut oil. At any rate just wanted everyone to know that doing keto vegan or vegetarian is not hard to do. You just avoid the beans and soy products. I still do eat meat because I love it but I only do it once a week and I make sure it is a really good quality grass fed beef. I try and eat a good quality salmon once or twice a week my other days are just plant-based. I add olive oil to everything I make and eat lots of leafy greens. Decreasing the amount of animal protein in my diet has led to an increase in my Ketone levels I burn more fat and I feel much more energized. I love the ketotarian book as well that someone posted about. I still love a good bacon cheeseburger but that is probably once a month now.
My husband and I used to say that bacon was vacation food now we say fruit is vacation food. How times have changed !
I’m having some reservations about this. Vegetarian that includes some animal products such as eggs, butter, cheese, that kind of thing, I believe might be possible for some to be quite healthy.
Short of a particular type of genetics, I’m not convinced that healthy vegan is possible for a large segment of the population.
You mention avoiding beans and soy. I can appreciate that. (We couldn’t do soy in our house if we wanted to as one of us has a nasty allergic reaction to it.) But if you’re a vegan, where do you get good quality protein in sufficient amounts for good health? I’m not a fan of supplements, at least not to the level of entire or nearly entire food groups (protein shakes, that kind of thing). I am a fan of real food, though.
In your own example, you are not vegan or vegetarian as you eat grass fed beef and salmon. And I can appreciate that. I’m not sure you can make the leap that if you cut out the beef and the salmon (and all other animal products) you could be just as healthy.
People can often take on a vegan diet for months or even years and find benefits. (I’ve even heard going vegan for a time associated with the concept of a fast.) But there are some deficiencies that can show up years down the road while seeming to do just fine while your body goes through heroics maintaining a sense of normalcy pulling nutrients from bones and teeth and muscle doing it’s very best, and when it can’t anymore, oops, you’re not so healthy as you thought you were, and you might have done a LOT of damage. (Eye, bone and heart problems are things I’ve heard doctors mention about long term vegans, and not doctors with anything to sell, just doctors that have been practicing for 20 or 30 or 40 years seeing real people.)
Hey, I grew up vegetarian. I even went vegan for a year or so. For me, it was a religious thing. I was a “McDougall-head”. (Uugh, makes me cringe, now.) And I really was not able to thrive on that diet, even with supplements. I wanted to. I wanted it to work. I mean, I SERIOUSLY wanted it to work. And my world kinda crumbled a little when it just didn’t, especially when I found out that my health improved drastically upon the introduction of good quality animal products and meats in my diet. For a while, I was seriously envious of those who could make it work. (I know a very few for whom it really does seem to work. I suspect it has a lot to do with genetics.) But I finally came to my senses and decided I had to do what works for me. And vegan or vegetarian just isn’t it.
I’ve had some changes of heart in the “religious” part of it, too. I started spending more time with my Bible and less time with what a whole lot of people want to tell me it says. It’s actually been quite enlightening, and liberating. Others might not agree with that part, but just sharing from a personal level.
No offense intended. Just sharing from the heart.
Hi I appreciate your response. I guess I should be a little more clear I am not ever intending on being vegan or vegetarian I don’t believe either one of those lifestyles are healthy for the long run. Lots of nutritional deficiencies etc. However I do believe that limiting animal protein is essential to health. I have come along way too start believing this and read a ton. I will never fully cut animal proteins (I include fish here) out of my life however I limit it a lot. I get my protein most days from vegetables and nuts you would be surprised how much protein is available and cruciferous vegetables if you eat enough of them. Nuts have a ton. I only eat walnuts pecans and macadamia nuts I bake with almond flour you also need way less protein than you would think. Too much protein on a ketogenic diet is not good. It is very hard to eat animal protein and keep your protein levels low so for me avoiding animal proteins at least five days a week is successful and I feel like my gut microbiome is so so much healthier. All of my markers of inflammation are superlow some of them were even not detectable by the lab. My measures of gut microbiome health were fabulous as well. I definitely cook with eggs and keerygold butter which have health benefits. So I guess to sum up my diet now is plant-based or plant centered. that doesn’t mean vegan or vegetarian it just means the majority of what I eat is plant-based. I turned into this plant-based diet 18 months after starting keto. So I had already lost my intended weight and almost cured my autoimmune disease. I am now looking toward a path to wellness in general. I read plant paradox which got me started on this plant based track.
There is no right diet for everyone I just was hoping to share with people who were insistent on being vegetarian that they could do it and still be in keto. Olive oil and nuts can fuel your fat for the day. I’m Not recommending one diet over another just wanted people to know that all possibilities to keto are open.
I found that out yesterday when I put my sunflower seed intake into Chronometer. I could not believe a moderate amount of seeds had slightly more protein than bacon!
Yes and also I do a lot of baking I make keto bread keto muffins desserts etc. most things are made out of almond flour and flax seed meal. My breads and muffins have a lot of protein because of that. If I take a slice of my bread and cook an egg on it and an avocado I am halfway to my protein count for the day
That’s wonderful, Yogicat. So glad to hear this! I’ve been through similar issues trying different diet programs that worked for me at first, then my progress slowed down. Glad you found Keto and are with us! Cheers!