Keto pets ~ anyone have one?

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #41

So, just a quick follow-up. I did another search to try to remember what I found specifically about dogs last time.

Dogs (and according to my pet thesis (:joy:) all non-human species) are relatively resistant to ketosis.

The earliest study was 1941 (http://www.jbc.org/content/138/1/123.full.pdf), in which it was shown that it takes dogs 2-3 days of fasting to achieve ketosis, vs. ~39 hours in humans, and even then itā€™s not as deep. Ketone bodies are used perfectly well by most mammals, including dogs, but produced only in food shortage.

All other studies I could find that did not calorie restrict used MCTs or ketone body esters, exactly because it is known to be difficult to induce dietarily.

The only exception seems to be in pregnant bitches. They can have impaired glucose production, which will induce some ketosis on a carbohydrate free but fully fed diet.

Therefore, I assume that the sanctuary is either protein restricting, using MCT oils, or both.

To put a finer point on it, I sincerely doubt that your dog or my cats are in ketosis when we feed them natural, raw, carnivorous diets. Nonetheless, I still expect it to be much healthier than feeding them the crap thatā€™s sold in stores as pet food.

(Cathy) #42

It is good to remember that studies designed around ketosis in humans and animals are scant and full of confounding factors. Making assumptions (extrapolating) may or may not be accurate is in large part, where good science goes bad.

A good example that comes to mind is the recent mouse study that supposedly determined that long term ketosis negatively impacted health but when looking at the methods, the ketogenic food fed those mice, it was very poor quality industrial oils - only that.

I have no studies or evidence (aside from the keto pet sancturary) to suggest that ketosis is possible in our pets except perhaps the dramatic health improvements that come with a raw diet. Much the same as in humans. And that fact is really the point.

(Michelle) #43

@Amber - do you recommend feeding pets a raw diet over other foods? Did you see Pet Fooled on Netflix? I do want to switch my dogā€™s food to raw, but Iā€™m a little scared about feeding raw meats.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #44

I am by no means an expert on animal care, but it stands to reason that they didnā€™t evolve a problem eating raw meat. Dogs have been with humans a long time and have quicker generations, but I donā€™t think the amount of time eating cooked food would have led to a selection against it.

What is the specific fear?

(Michelle) #45

Not sure, just seems weird to put a raw drumstick in there, or raw beef.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #46

I think weā€™re talking past each other @clackley. I have been reiterating a single claim:

Ketosis is definitely possible in pets, it just doesnā€™t normally happen with a low carb diet alone.

I brought it up because I think itā€™s an important distinction to understand that feeding your pet a low-carb diet doesnā€™t mean theyā€™re in ketosis. If your pet has cancer, and you want them in ketosis as therapy, you need to do more than that. If they are healthy, they probably donā€™t need to be in ketosis anyway.

That most animals can get into ketosis with caloric restriction is not even controversial. Humans are different, in that they donā€™t need caloric restriction, and thatā€™s not controversial either.

The only things that are controversial in the wider world are:

  1. Whether ketosis has therapeutic value
  2. Whether ketosis is healthy as a long-term state

Most people on this forum have already been convinced of number 1 for humans and probably for other animals, and many here are probably also convinced of number 2 for humans. My research has led me to an evolutionary explanation about why that would be the case, but that evolutionary explanation does not transfer to other animals.

(Arlene) #47

What a gorgeous hen. And your dog is so lucky. I feed our dog raw chicken thighs, but even if I cooked his meal, I would not season it. You are one indulgent parent!

(Cathy) #48

I think we can agree to disagree as the main point of this thread is feeding pets a diet that is ketogenic for all intent and purposes and the positive results. Eating a low carb diet in humans also does not = ketosis either.

I too have done a lot of research over the years and respectfully, disagree with your notions about pet diets as it pertains to ketosis.

(Cathy) #49

Michelle, raw feeding is something that concerned pet owners have to decide with the information that is available. There are really great things about feeding raw and there are some draw backs as well.

I started my dog on raw after reading quite a bit about it. It is not something I did lightly. Because she was already a mature dog, there was specific doā€™s and donā€™ts to begin with. The best and most clear cut info came from my supplier of raw food. I was also able to talk to them directly. But as I stated, you should do all the research you need to be comfortable about it in that it is a good choice for you and your dog.

(Michelle) #50

understand. I think getting started is the hardest part. Iā€™ve ton of lot of research and watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to feed raw, the benefits, and the ratios to get started. I suppose I just need to start small and work up a full raw diet.

(Cathy) #51

Some sources say that you should not mix it up (although it seems a lot of people do). It is based on 2 ideas. One that the dog may not like the raw and learn to wait you out for the processed food. Two is that the gut needs to make some accommodations as in digestive enzymes and gut biome changes and that can take longer and not go as well.

In my case, my dog already had very bad teeth and although she gleefully accepted meaty bones, her teeth were a concern so I feed her raw ground for the majority of her food. It comes in a frozen patty and I feed it to her in a partially frozen state.

BARF will tell you that is not a good way to go about it but my dogsā€™ situation and my sensibilities tell me it is 100% right for us.

(Cathy) #52

This is a great blog entry from KPS and I thought it worth posting here for anyone who may be concerned about their petā€™s food quality. Something to think about.

KPS Blog
May 10th, 2017

RAW vs RENDERED
Houston, we have a problem
Brace Yourself.
Pet Parents, hug your fur baby close- were you aware that the rendered meats used in mainstream pet foods contain the flesh of diseased stock yard animals, euthanized cats, dogs and horses, slaughter house scraps, and can even include road kill?
Boiling these scraps at 280F produces the slurry that gets extruded into a piece of dry kibble, which can end up in your best friendā€™s bowl.
And hereā€™s the kicker: because euthanized animals are used, thereā€™s a risk that Pentobarbital can end up in your dogā€™s food.
Step into the cold.
Freeze-drying the same fresh meats you would throw onto your Sunday grill, is a new way to look a pet nutrition. Itā€™s also good way to ensure that your canine companion is getting food that is only a few steps away from what they would eat in the wild.
Because freeze-drying relies on lowering the temperature and removing moisture from meats during a flash freezing and vacuum process, it produces a versatile, low carb and shelf stable kibble, which can be reconstituted as a meal with a little bit of water, or used as a dry treat.
Shift.
No doubt, every Pet Parent wants to know that their doggy is eating the best food, and sometimes it can be tough to decipher if rendered meats are being used. Look for the clues: if you see the terms ā€˜mealā€™, ā€˜by productā€™, or ā€˜animal fatā€™ on a bag of your dogā€™s food, you may want to give that manufacturer a call and investigate further.
Furthermore, make an assessment as to whether the ingredients in your pet food are Species Appropriate. For example, do dogs in the wild typically consume, tapioca, glycerin and barley?
Be the Hero your dog thinks you are. Feed Raw.

(David) #53

What do you feed your cats day to day. Mine is getting a bit portly and she could do with beImg slimmer

(What The Fast?!) #55

IMG_3998.JPG3024Ɨ3024 1.83 MB

This guy is grain free. :slight_smile:

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #56

From a practical perspective, if the goal is ketosis (and not just eliminating grains and other carbs) how can you make sure your dog is getting there?

(Nick) #57

That is a good question. How can you tell, at home, that your dog is in ketosis? You canā€™t exactly get them to breathe into a Ketonix, or do daily blood tests.

(Cathy) #58

What a cutie!!!

(Cathy) #59

You canā€™t. But many people do ketosis without testing either. They feel they are getting where they want by how they feel. With pets, I would suggest looking to their health markers. For instance my little dog lost some weight initially (she had a bit of pudge) and her chronic infections and diarrhea resolved. She walks literally miles with me most days and I think would go longer. She plays and acts like she feels very well with tons of energy.

After all, as with people, you eat in the best manner you can and donā€™t fret about it because you are already doing the best you can.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #60

So what leads you to believe this is an effect of ketosis, then? All the evidence Iā€™ve seen says that they would not be in ketosis. It is quite plausible itā€™s simply an effect of natural diet, isnā€™t it?

(Cathy) #61

Do you think that the current science on dogs/ketosis is complete and exhaustive?