Keto on a pesca-ovo-lacto way of eating? Finding difficult to stay below 20g

(Dewi) #1

Hello,
On my fifth day of this new way of eating, and I’m finding it difficult to stay below 20g net carbs while also eating till I’m full. (I realize my calorie intake it too low, yet find eating more fish and eggs not appealing, also realize that nuts have carbs, too, so trying not to eat too much of those)

There are several threads regarding this topic, but they’re several years old. . so I thought I’d start this one. Would like to hear from current semi vegetarians (eating fish , eggs, and the occasional chicken) and what works for you, what a typical day of eating looks like for you, etc.

Have looked up vegetarian/pescatarian keto ways of eating, but wanted to see what worked for those who have tried it/are on it.

(Joey) #2

You mentioned “-lacto” as part of your eating approach … hard cheeses, unsweetened yogurt, heavy cream-based keto recipes… any appeal?

(Dewi) #3

Yes, definitely, love cheese and dairy products, am currently using 1 tbsp heavy cream in my coffee. .

(Mike W.) #4

Just curious. Why fish and chicken but no beef?

(Dewi) #5

Don’t care for beef or other types of meat other than fish or chicken. Probably because I grew up in a household where we didn’t eat too much of that. . it just doesn’t taste good to me. Will eat tofu and tempeh. . though trying to stay away from “fake meats”. Will eat them if I have to, though.

#6

While I do my best to eat carnivore-ish these days, I had vegetarian keto for years (on and off as keto didn’t give me benefits and I missed my vegs sometimes). I used 40g net carbs but I didn’t have meats like fish and chicken… There are vegetarian and even vegan ketoers below 20g carbs but I couldn’t do that with my love towards vegs (except most green leaves, ew). But eating enough protein and fat? I have found that easy, that part didn’t even bring much carbs, my little veggies (and fruits) did.

Nuts and oily seeds aren’t so very carby, at least not all of them, they are quite fatty so they can help with your calories a lot while not bringing many carbs.

Between fish, chicken, eggs, all the dairy and nuts, I don’t really see it should be a problem to eat enough. Of course, you are knew and it takes some time to adapt, make new recipes, figure out the whole thing in general. But you have plenty of very low-carb animal options and some not very carby plant options as well :slight_smile:
And of course if you get your protein and only need more energy, you can always eat pure fats, they are zero carb :wink:

Until very recently (and it took much time and some work to change it as it comes naturally to me) I got the (sometimes way) bigger part of my fat and protein intake from eggs and dairy. They can help a lot if one loves and can handle them (my problem was their not stellar satiating effect in my case. chicken is much worse though and I never ate enough fish to figure out that… but it’s highly individual).

(Dewi) #7

Thank you for all your advice. . it’s good to hear from someone who’s been in the same situation. It’s just very overwhelming, trying to stay below or around 20g net carbs as someone who loves her veggies (broccoli, mini bell peppers, spinach). It seems like there should be a little more leeway for those who eat less meat.

I have about 27 lbs I need to lose to get to the weight where I’d like to be. Am seeing a nutritionist in about a week and a half, but am not sure she’ll/he’ll give any helpful advice.

#8

I wouldn’t call tofu fake meat, it is almost as far from meat as possible and couldn’t imitate it if it wanted :smiley: It’s just a soy thing, can be a valid food in its own right suppose. I dislike it as it doesn’t taste good :smiley: I was a vegetarian who disliked all these things meat eaters didn’t eat :smiley: I only ate tofu in miso soup but I can’t stand tofu anymore and it’s a bit sad as miso soup tastes great and now I can’t eat it even on my off days without (this far failed) experiments to substitute tofu… Those dry soy things are funnier, I ate them maybe once per year at some point… I liked to eat normal, honest plants, mostly. And tons of animal products (eggs and dairy but lots of it). And sadly, stupid processed treats but they were nice to eat… Still, I had some standards :smiley:

I would never need tofu as long as I can keep my eggs and dairy. Eggs are very versatile and I use a wide variety of dairy items.

(Bob M) #9

20g really isn’t a hard and fast rule. Pre-Musk, when I was on Twitter, I followed a guy who ate 80 grams and supposedly would gain above that and lose below that. He lost 80+ pounds, though he also lifted weights a lot.

It has taken me years, but I think beef is the best meat now. Good pork, from a local farm, might be second, though chicken from a local farm is good too. Store bought, both of these aren’t great. The fat in particular can be nasty.

#10

It was for me and many others. I got into ketosis and got fat adaptation in 7 weeks eating 40-45g net carbs and unlimited total (I surely had 100g on some days). Some people can go WAY higher. 20g is the safe amount and some people needs total, that’s very tricky for a veggie lover. I had zero chance for that. What could I fit into my 40g net carbs, 1kg vegs the most?! It was below MINIMAL to me! And I needed my fruits, actually needed them but I was fine with a minuscule amount. The problem was my vegs, they take up the biggest part of my carb intake.
I realized that I can’t eat any proper veggie dishes on keto, 40g net carbs is just too little for that, I ate vegs in amount.
I did these super thin soups. Still tasty, higher-carb vegs are powerful! A little this and that, I only made mixed veggie soups with my veggie favs inside. With dumplings (egg and various ground oily seeds).
I realized raw vegs make me more content and I can’t eat a ton of them. They were juicy, crunchy, the ones eaten raw are usually lower-carb too… So I ate raw vegs and went back to raw vegan blogs to get some nice recipes. They helped me out a bit on keto.

I personally needed to depend on cakes and other sweet desserts a lot as it was the only way to keep my carbs around 40g net carbs. Oh and I made sure to always eat above 35g net carbs, not wasting my allowance and make me more hungry for more vegs!
(But now I really don’t like cakes, I got bored of them, it comes handy on carnivore, actually :wink: )

It didn’t feel too hard back then (I don’t do hard things when it comes to my woe) but now I see it was a bit difficult and far from ideal for me. But I couldn’t eat less carbs back then for more than 1-2 days (I did try when I was miserable about my “low” carb allowance, I had a 10g carb day :smiley: I never looked at my 40g net the same again… I still couldn’t fit much vegs into it but it got easier.)

But you have so many more options! It probably will be fine, you just need to get over the early hardships, probably almost all of us have them. Except maybe the ones who are content with simple keto foods by default…

(Dewi) #11

It seems as though reading through most of the threads here. . that those who have had success have been the ones who stayed around 20g net carbs. But then, it sounds like they are the ones eating red meat, mainly.

Was looking at hemp hearts as another way to get protein and healthy fats with minimal carbs. Will have to add that to shopping list. . .

(Bob M) #12

Well, I think people eat “red” meat for a variety of reasons. (I think of mainly beef as red meat, though I know supposedly pork, lamb, etc., are all red meat.) It’s often quite a bit cheaper than fish, particularly if pork is red meat. This is from my local store:

image

Meanwhile, you can get ground beef for $4/pound, pork chops for $3/pound, sausage for $3.50/pound, etc.

You’re going to find people who eat beef and pork because they can afford it.

You can also tailor red meat to be fattier or lean, whereas most seafood is pretty lean. I don’t mind lean, but even I find seafood not that filling for whatever reason compared to say beef.

#13

There’s as much leeway as you want/need. 20g isn’t a magic number, and many don’t count veggie carbs. Not all carbs are created equal, contrary to religious keto’rs that think otherwise. I did super strict keto for 4yrs, now I do a hybrid of targeted and cyclic keto, so carbs pre/post workout and usually 2 carb reloads a week, rest of the meals are normal keto ones. I’ve lost more fat and put back on more muscle in the last year than the 4yrs prior.

(MC) #14

Vegetarian keto here. Not sure if I’m on 20g or under of carbs, I tend to just use the urine sticks and stay away from any carb that isn’t a vegetable.

I would try to find a way to eat eggs that appeals to you. I think I’ve tried every variation but found that boiled eggs as snacks, with just himalayan salt, seem to be the most palatable way to get protein.

I also have heavy cream in hot water/coffee quite a lot throughout the day and have mozarella or cheddar with salad, which you could add chicken or fish to.

#15

Whip up some heavy cream and add a couple of strawberries, cut in thin slices. You need more fat.

(Dewi) #16

Yes, I do realize that seafood is more expensive… .it’s just eating meat isn’t very appealing/tasty to me. But may just have to start eating more tempeh/tofu if trying to only eat fish and chicken on several days. Maybe add hemp hearts to make up for the protein/fats. . .

Did see that they had plant based heavy cream, has anyone tried that? If so, what did you think?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

The biology of a ketogenic diet is to keep insulin low by restricting glucose intake (i.e., carbohydrates). There is a certain level of insulin in the blood, above which we are in glucose-burning, fat-storing mode, and below which we are in fat-burning mode. Fat burning mode is easier on the body and allows any excess stored fat we may have to be metabolised.

Exactly what amount of carb intake you can have and still keep your insulin below the threshold depends on a lot of factors. However, we recommend 20 g/day as a limit that works for almost everybody (except those who are extremely insulin-resistant). A ketogenic diet works best if we don’t think of it as a crash diet that we will stop once we get the results we want; it’s better to think of it as a permanent change in our way of eating that promotes long-term health.

The “leeway” you are asking for, to eat more carbohydrate, is something your body may not give you, if your goal is to achieve and maintain nutritional ketosis. You can test your body’s response to glucose intake (all carbohydrates are nothing more than glucose molecules bonded together in various ways) and determine what maximum will still allow you to stay in ketosis. But if that limit is too low to make you happy, then perhaps a low-carbohydrate, high-fat, ketogenic diet is not for you.

(Edith) #18

You may find (if you stick to this way of eating as your new way of life) that your tastes change over time. I ate low fat meats for years. The fat on a rib-eye steak grossed my out and I would cut it off. Now I think that is the best part. :laughing: If you do decide to give beef a try after a while, maybe start with veal as it has a milder flavor than beef.

When you do eat chicken, try to eat the fattier parts like the thighs and drumsticks. How about avocados? They are tasty, fatty, with a fair bit of fiber which supposedly negates some of the carbs, and a great source of potassium. Deviled eggs or egg salad is a great way to eat eggs and get extra fat in. Maybe that will help mix things up a bit?

How are you eating your fish? You can always try making tuna or salmon salad, salmon burgers, sardine patties. Maybe you just need to mix up the ways you are preparing the fish?