Keto Is This Easy

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #122

Keep limiting your carb intake. Get enough protein (your body should tell you), and then eat enough fat to satisfy your hunger.

The body’s energy sources are glucose and fatty acids. Our metabolism is either in glucose-burning mode or in fat-burning mode, depending on the level of insulin. If it’s high, we metabolise glucose (partly to simply get rid of it; too much is toxic), if it’s low, fatty acids. While glucose/carbohydrate is a strong stimulus for insulin production, fat triggers it very little, no more than the bare amount needed for survival. Fat also metabolises without the damage caused by glycation. So, in many respects, it is a safe, clean fuel to be burning. As Jason Fung, likes to say, “To burn sugar, eat carbohydrate; to burn fat, eat fat.”

We recommend 1.0-1.5 g of protein per kg of lean body mass. Some experts recommend up to 2.0 g/kg. This is a tricky subject, and people’s need for protein is individual. If you’re not getting enough protein, you are going to feel unsatisfied, no matter how much fat you eat. So start in the recommended range, and adjust from there, would be my advice. And remember (some people forget this) that meat is only about 1/4 protein, so to get 100 g a day of protein, you need to eat 400 g (about 14 oz.) of meat.

#123

I eat protein sources, always. If it causes overeating protein, I choose fattier protein sources and will avoid eating too lean to begin with.

But many people try to keep their protein pretty low from my own viewpoint. Yes, there is a thing as too much protein but we may need more than it would be “logical” from our stats and going over our needs is still fine to some extent. It may be a bit wasteful but not unhealthy. I may eat 200+ g fat, I am still hungry (or gets hungry later) if I didn’t get my high protein… So it must be a thing too.

Do you need feeling full? I do my best to avoid that but I do like satiation… Sometimes it comes later after a meal though, not the best case as I don’t know when to stop eating. Choosing the right, satiating food helps me with this.

1-2g/kg for kg is a nice range, I personally can’t stay that low, I was always above. I still aim to eat as little protein as comfortably possible but I know my minimum is over 2 on normal days even if I have a very inactive phase. I just need it for satiation. I may go below 2 if I eat really fatty but that’s tricky.
No need to worry about it, I can’t change this (I still try as I still have ideas but don’t force anything).

(Eve) #124

Thankyou for all replies. I think l should probably increase my protein a bit as that is what l find myself craving, not carbs . I don’t need to feel completely full, satiated, but sometimes l am just so hungry and empty feeling! I don’t eat beef at all, so most of my protein is chicken , fish and eggs. I also eat some nuts but not too many due to the carbs.

#125

I don’t eat ruminants either (due to the price and low availability but I prefer pork anyway) but pork works for me. Chicken alone never could. It just can’t satiate me and probably fish is the same. Many people have this, some can get satiated by chicken but some aren’t fine even with pork, only ruminants… It’s very individual. And I ate little to no meat all my life but now I miss meat if I keep it too low… It’s useful to feel what my body wants when our macros are just fine but it still doesn’t work.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #126

For me, there is a significant difference between being full and being satiated. As I’ve mentioned many times, when I was a carb-burner, I’d fill my stomach with pasta, literally to the bursting point, and still be hungry for more. About two or three weeks after I went keto, I prepared a dinner plate full (my usual quantity) of salmon for lunch one day, and suddenly, when I had just finished one steak, I realised I was done, finished, completely uninterested in eating any more.

I figure my stomach was, at most, half full at that point. It was nothing near the quantitiy of food I’d been accustomed to eating, but there was nothing to do but to put the other salmon steak in the fridge for later. And it turned out to be hours before I was ready to eat again. It felt completely bizarre, but I realised this was satiety. If I’d ever felt it before, it was so long in the past, I’d forgotten what it felt like.

(Eve) #127

I am sure that as more time goes by l will have a similar experience re being satiated easier than at the moment. I may try other protein as suggested.
From all the advice I have had in this excellent forum plus what l have read, it does seem that my system is taking longer than average to make the switch to using ketones and being fat adapted. I have been in ketosis for a while, but still have negative symptoms even though they are gradually easing - overall improving but it is very up and down, not a smooth transition to a feeling healthier at all! I am still committed to it though!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #128

We tell people that fat-adaptation takes six to eight weeks, and it does for most people. We’ve had a couple of people whose bodies adapted in much less time, and unfortunately there are people for whom it seems to take longer. I’m sorry you appear to be one of them. :slightly_frowning_face:

The key factors are mitochondrial health and the reactivation of certain metabolic pathways in muscle cells. You can help your mitochondria heal and make baby mitochondria by exercising—just don’t go hog wile and overstress your body while it’s still adapating.

(Eve) #129

Thankyou Paul :blush:

(Eve) #130

I think drinking the electrolytes and adding extra salt has caused a gain in water weight. Does this sound possible?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #131

If so, it’s only a temporary gain and will rectify itself.

The bloating from eating carbohydrate is harder to get rid of—unless one stops eating carbohydrate, of course! :wink:

The thing to remember about the scale is that the number it shows is going to go up and down. The trend line is what counts, not the day-to-day variations. I just started using a new scale, and I find that my weight seems to fluctuate from hour to hour, much less day to day, and it seems to bear little relation to what I’ve been eating and drinking, or any other activities. Just keep calm, and keto on. You’re fine.

(Eve) #132

I like that " keep calm and keto on" !

(Eve) #133

I just hadn’t realised that the benefits of the keto diet would take such a while to fully take effect although if ld thought about what has to change biochemically, and the degree of healing that has to occur, it makes sense. I have significant gut dysbiosis and know that changes will be slow in coming but l already can tell that my system/gut is happier without so many carbs, even though my diet has been scrupulously clean and mega healthy - just lots of carbs! Who would have thought that too many veg would not necessarily be a good thing! It was mantra for so long - and included loads of the high starch veg such as.parsnips, squash, carrots, beets, etc. Having an allotment full of beautiful summer and winter squash didn’t help!! I just are my through mounds of it all!
Do you still notice new benefits and whn did it all really become noticeable for you?

(Robin) #134

I can relate. I was a very happy vegetarian. Until it no longer worked.

(Eve) #135

How much veg can you get away with now? And how did you know all that veg wasn’t great for you?

#136

I can relate :slight_smile:
I ate very little vegs on keto, 1kg or less a day (my only real hardship) and it STILL interfered! (Okay, I had other carbs too like oily seeds. And obviously fruits but the carbs from them were negligible.)

Now I eat about… well, right now it’s like 1g vegetable a day on average? I take carnivore seriously now :smiley: And I lost interest in most vegetables anyway.

I don’t believe in plants doing any bad to me - until the plant (and fungi I suppose but it never mattered) carbs are low. It’s just… My body prefers a VERY low limit longer term. 1g a day works well for sure, I can afford much more occasionally :slight_smile: I probably would be okay with 3-4g or more long term but it’s easier just to avoid them at that point, as much as I am able to. Animal carbs are fine even if I go over 20g with them (only happens on my rare milky days, it’s easily 40g then and no problem. I immediately feel plant carbs though if they are not negligible. I am fine but still, something is a tad off…?).

(Eve) #137

Thanks for the info. Very helpful

(Robin) #138

I realized that after I developed diverticulitis, it was consuming any significant amount of vegetables (especially steamed or raw) that brought about flair-ups of my diverticulitis.
Once I began paying more attention to how I felt after eating any food, I kept eliminating… until I was keto. And then carnivore.
I have experimented with eating some very well cooked and very well chewed veggies, in small amounts, and I can get away with it. But… any significant amount will immediately make my joints ache.

But… this is just me. And I am the the product of my lifetime of eating and my lifestyle. Many keto folks do great with veggies.

(Eve) #139

What about the vitamins and minerals that plants provide that we can’t get from just protein? Do you take supplements? I have realised that alot of carbs makes nauseous next day - l best to keep a food diary and be methodical like you to determine which veg are OK and which are not.

#140

Do you think meat (and other animal items) only have protein and water? Nope, they have all the micronutrients a human may need. Of course it’s not THAT simple, one can eat a wrong carnivore diet but one can eat a wrong omnivore diet as well. It seems it’s not that easy to eat wrong on carnivore (as long as one doesn’t hate meat, that would be problematic. I love eggs but they are lacking in certain micronutrients…).
And carnivore isn’t right for everyone anyway, many says that they work better eating some plants and more carbs anyway… So it’s individual too. But theoretically you can get everything from meat alone.
One has different needs on carnivore, that changes things too. For example, one needs WAY less Vitamin C on carnivore (and one can get it from meat as it has everything essential. the preparation matters though).

I personally don’t take any supplements. Only Magnesium if I get cramps but I very rarely get them on carnivore with enough meat, the single 120mg pill per a few month is definitely negligible :wink:
But we are different, others may need something.

Carbs never made me nauseous, only too fatty food or extreme overeating… But they cause other problems.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #141

Are there any? What one do you have in mind?

There are data to suggest that a low-carb/ketogenic diet alters the body’s need for certain micronutrients. Vitamin C, for example, is much less necessary on a ketogenic diet, because the ketone body β-hydroxybutyrate reactivates the body’s endogenous defences against oxidation, rendering exogenous Vitamin C unnessary. Not to mention that eating fresh meat also prevents scurvy. (And this was known long before the Royal Navy decided it was easier to keep lemons and limes aboard ship than to provide fresh meat to sailors on long deployments.)

Moreover, there are data to suggest that certain vitamins and minerals are more easily assimilated in the forms found in meat, than in the forms commonly found in plants. So I think this concern might be less valid than it appears at first glance.