Keto dieters are irresponsible stewards of the planet - says Harvard nutrition 'expert'

(KCKO, KCFO) #21

I am a big fangirl of Ballersteadt. My city uses goats to control goats around the lake that provides us with water. Much more healthy than spraying chemicals everywhere. The goat :poop: provides the lake with beautiful flowers too. And those goats produce wonderful goat cheese.

(Katie) #22

Wellā€¦ I have seen the feed lots in so. Cal. Horrible places. Thousands upon thousand penned up in small lots (like a couple thousand per acre) with feed troughs and otherwise living in their own excrement. No wonder they are filled with antibiotics. Horrible to see. You can smell those lots from mile away.

Nowā€¦how many acres do you figure you need to grass feed cattle? I bet it isnā€™t more than 3 to an acre

Yes, our way of eating takes more resourcesā€¦lots more. In a world of diminishing resources and ever increasing population, one might make the argument that we are taking more than a fair share. (If you figure our share is just 1 in several billionā€¦whatever the current population is)

Also, consider, the industrial food complex isnā€™t putting anything back into the soilā€¦what they are feeding the world is trash. Their way of farming simply cannot forgo the profit for the season to let the land lay fallow.

#23

@Katiekate It takes roughly 10-12 acres/year per cow, for grass feeding. That is also taking into account the amount of land wherein hay would be need to be made for feeding 1 head during the non-grazing months. If grazing can be done year round- then 10-12 acres per head.

On our farm: We supplement with hay, non-gmo alfalfa, sundried kelp, and selenium added salt licks during the winter months. We rotate cattle from paddock to paddock, and divide them up between properties. The cattle fertilize each paddock, allowing grasses to grow thick and rich. We also remove manure from the winter feeding pen, and spread it around - in my garden, and throughout the popular grazing areas.

Part of the farm properties are in a river basin area, prone to flooding in the spring. The nutrients from the river permeate the lower fields and we end up with some of the most lush hay fields around. On the lower fields, however, most of the cows do not graze. (There is a fault line that goes right through the primary section of the farm, dividing the upper and lower regions.) The enriching of the soil is mainly from the flooding. The upper fields rely on the manure of the grazing cattle for fertilization. We make some hay in that area as well, but it grows fast and furious in the warmer months. - and we do some manure spreading- every couple of years or so. In the springtime, we do controlled-burns to get rid of all the dead vegetation, weeds, etc, which also serves to kind of jump-start the new grass growth process. Keeping the hay fields cut each year is key, so that weeds and bush donā€™t take the fields over and make them unusable.

We donā€™t have a large-scale operation like some, but since we do the work ourselves - its just fine with me that we scale down every year or so. Other stuff, like fruit and veg- we either grow ourselves or buy locally (as weather and supply permits).

The original article posted is just pure BS from an ignorant ā€œscientistā€ .

(Crow T. Robot) #24

Interesting. You guys are heroes. Do you use holistic planned grazing a la Allan Savory, or just rotational grazing?

(Crow T. Robot) #25

Iā€™m not sure about this. It depends on how you define the resources. Keto isnā€™t necessarily resource intensive because you can raise animals just about anywhere. You could certainly make the case that our food system is very wasteful in general, but thatā€™s not on keto/LCHF/Carnivore.

#26

Well, honestly, when we started the farming 18 years ago,I was unaware that there was such a thing as holistic planned grazing. :upside_down_face: Iā€™d only read a few books on grass-fed beef- and donā€™t recall the authors or names of the books. (We lost those in a house fire.) But, that was my only real preparation for moving from the city to the country. Motown to Mootown - sums up my lifeā€™s story in three words.

We used aerial photos of the farmland, installed LOTS of fencing to divy up the areas, purchased 4 cows, three of which were pregnant, and within monthsā€¦voilaā€¦a farm was born. (Weā€™ve since purchased more adjoining land for more grazing.) How we decided to rotate the cattle was based entirely on logic. Paddock A for W days; move to B for X days, C to Y days, Dā€¦, and then back to A. During that time period, thereā€™s rain that hits the manure, which nourishes the soil and grasses. After a few rotations, we move them to an entirely different section of the farm, and begin the process all over again. The biggest challenge we faced is making sure they had an adequate water supply, but the way in which we divided up the areas allowed access to the tributaries and ponds. We also found a natural spring, soā€¦that aspect of farming isnā€™t so difficult, except in the winter. During that time, all the cattle stay in the 40 acres at our house. There, we have a large pond, and the capability to supply water in their tanks all winter- with a heater.

The land on which the main farm is located is in a region known for its alluvial soil. Weā€™ve had horse owners who purchase hay from us- actually get the hay lab tested for nutrient levels. One owner told us that this is first time sheā€™s never had to give her horses magnesium supplements, because the hay tested so well for that- and other nutrients. Even when we cut hay from our farm- or a couple other farms- we donā€™t do all the same areas every year. Sometimes, we re-seed it, and leave it alone for a season. Again, this only seemed logical to us, to proliferate healthy growth and nutrient rich hay.

Thank you, but we donā€™t see ourselves as heros. Just constructed a plan that seemed logical based on the area in which we live, the needs of the animals, and all resources (like health and farm equipment) with which we have been blessed. Except for hopping on the tractor, shooing a loose calf into the fence, or rolling bales off the truck, not too much hands on work for me.

For processing: We get 2-3 head into the cow trailor and haul them down to the butcher. There, they sit for 4-5 days to relax. (Otherwise, youā€™ll have meat thatā€™s been ruined with adrenaline.) They are USDA inspected; then fed, watered, then weaned off the hay, and have only water - to help cleanse their systems. Then, they are put down in less than a second. They are butchered, inspected again, aged, cut to specs, wrapped- and I usually go and pick up the finished product. We keep plenty for ourselves, our family, and a few friends- then sell the rest. The processor is the only USDA processor certified to process organic meat anywhere in a 200 mile radius, so, we have to make the 3 hour drive one way, to get it. But, its worth it. Its clean meat, the land is happy, the garden is happy, weā€™re happy, our customers are happy.

(Susan) #27

I love this, so cute! You have worked hard, and it is really interesting how you started and where you are at now. Do you think that any of your kids will want to take over the farm when it is too much for you and your husband? I am sure that your beef is delicious. Until a couple of years ago, I was always buying half a cow from friends of ours that are Beef farmers as well, and who raise grain-fed beef.

#28

How does that make sense when keto makes u systematically eat less and majority of fields are for carb based food items and not livestock or for livestock?

(Jane) #29

Not sure if she is talking worldwide or the USA? Definitely enough land to support the entire US population on the diet we used to eat in the 1940ā€™s. The footprint of grocery stores could shrink back to their previous smaller sizes without all the rows and rows of carbage they currently stock.

#30

I am very curious about the environmental effects of keto and carnivore. I heard Ballerstadt speak (at KetoFest) and he was entertaining, but he glossed over a lot of issues. Iā€™m guessing thatā€™s because he figured everyone there had heard them before, but I hadnā€™t.

For example, how exactly do ruminants sequester carbon? Can we compare the environmental impact of an animal-based diet and a plant-based diet side by side without exaggeration and without citing some impacts for one and not the other?

I am not trying to incite riots - I just want info. For example, if the fact is that a keto diet is healthier for humans, but not as healthy for the planet, letā€™s discuss that. Iā€™m willing to accept that if itā€™s the case. But so far, Iā€™m only seeing inflamed arguments on both sides without a lot of clear facts.

Also, for the record, he mocked AOCā€™s Green New Deal, which I would think would be exactly what heā€™s supporting if ruminant animals are, in fact, more environmentally friendly. To be accurate, the part of the Green New Deal that addresses agriculture says, ā€œworking collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to remove pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible, includingā€” i) by supporting family farming; (ii) by investing in sustainable farming and land use practices that increase soil health; and (iii) by building a more sustainable food system that ensures universal access to healthy food.ā€

What is wrong with that? I would think that is exactly what conscious keto people and carnivores are promoting, no? Itā€™s certainly what Joel Salatin promotes.

(April Harkness) #31

I donā€™t driveā€¦so already saving the planet!

#32

In a perfect world we would have free cattle roaming from pasture to pasture literally eating free fast growing food from the ground and self-fertalizing the eaten area afterwards. There would be way less corn/soy/wheat fields and no pesticides needed. Living in symbiosis with nature would be extremely easy, we just dont want that, people who decide that, have already decided and now we have what we have.

The pollution america creates is nothing compared to india and china and they have no plans to stop either, just look at google search images how people need masks outside cause the air is so polluted, its ridicolous.

#33

Iā€™m not sure if this is what Ballerstadt was referring to, but Iā€™ve heard Joel Salatin of Polyface Farm say that ā€œadolescentā€ grass will sequester more carbon than trees. Grass has three growing phases. They do a lot at their farm to keep the cattle moving from pasture to pasture on a daily basis and it keeps a lot of the grass in this middle phase, I guess. If the grass grows to maturity, then it doesnā€™t sequester as much carbon.

Hereā€™s a summary from a presentation he did:

Joel explains why the grasses grow better in his analogy of the three ages of grass:

First there is ā€˜diaperā€™ grass that is overgrazed, short and slow growing.
Then there is ā€˜teenā€™ grass that is much faster growing
Lastly there is old folks grass that is tall and also slow growing.
Teen grass is the most efficient at converting solar energy to biomass. The role of the herbivore is to prune and restart the fast growth stage of grass when metabolic growth is at it height.

Perhaps the most critical thing about pasture is that healthy pasture locks up large amounts of carbon. Unlike forestry, we donā€™t cut it down either, we just prune it with herbivores.

(Jane) #34

What hasnā€™t been really addressed with a keto diet is I donā€™t really eat any more meat than I did before keto. I eat more eggs, but not more beef, pork or chicken and I donā€™t think I am unique.

I cut out all the processed carbage crap, seed oils and added back butter, bacon fat and HWC.

I am having a hard time visualizing how these small changes in protein and large changes in processed foods/seed oils is causing additional stress on the environment.

I realize some here are carnivore and some eat a lot more meat than before keto, but I donā€™t and it isnā€™t necessary to eat keto.

(KCKO, KCFO) #35

That is pretty much what I have done. I even came to realize I was being a grainarian, I used to think I was a vegetarian, but my main diet then was wheat, rice and barley with little bits of veggie chopped and added in. I then moved on to 40/30/30 diets. When I found keto, I just upped the fats and continued to eat the protein levels I had been eating for a couple of decades, so not that major an addition of protein, what is extra comes from eggs, the almost perfect food.

All I know is this WOE rocks my world and I am never going back to another type of eating.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #36

The claim that meat is detrimental to the environment is actually spurious. Much of the worldā€™s grasslands require ruminant grazing in order to thrive, and although it counts as agricultural land it is mostly unsuitable as cropland. Cropland gets depleted in a very few years, if it is not constantly fertilized, and the manufacture and transport of chemical fertilizers uses a lot of fossil fuels.

Furthermore, the mechanical ploughing and harvesting of crops kills hordes of small animals and destroys their habitats, so even veganism isnā€™t free of the taint of taking animal lives. The question seems to be which animalsā€™ lives are we going to take, and how humanely are we going to do so?

Lastly, there isnā€™t actually enough cropland in the world to feed the entire world population on a vegan diet, even if it would not be environmentally suicidal to try.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #37

There is no doubt that factory farming of animals is detrimental to the environment, but the environmental costs of crop farming are not as much a part of the conversation.

I would encourage you to challenge Prof. Ballerstedt where you think he is wrong or misleading. I believe he has an important message, and that message is not served by anything less than complete accuracy. I had several conversations with him at Ketofest, and I am convinced that he has the data on his side, however well (or poorly) you think he conveys the data in his presentations.

(Crow T. Robot) #38

The main way ruminants sequester carbon is by fertilizing and grazing, thereby creating a deep soil ecosystem. Roots go deep; bugs, worms and microbes thrive; and topsoil is thick, anchored and stable, preventing erosion.

The so-called eco-friendly plant-based sounds good until you realize that the farming methods which support it sterilize the soil, and the crops grown are annual instead of perennial, not allowing for deep roots. Petroleum fertilizers are used, releasing even more carbon. Crops are shipped thousands of miles, also using fossil fuels.

If you are interested in the numbers, I suggest following Frank Mitloehner on twitter @GHGGuru.
Heā€™s a professor at UC Davis. Also, if you havenā€™t watched the Allan Savory TED talk, itā€™s a real eye-opener. Incidentally, heā€™s not pro or anti vegan. In fact, says itā€™s fine if you donā€™t want to eat meat, but you should raise as many ruminants on the land as you can regardless.

#39

Absofreakinlutely! is right , couldnā€™t have said it better!

#40

Thanks Chris. Obviously, whether eating vegetarian, omnivore, carnivore and/or keto, it makes sense to farm organically (no glyphosate), rotate crops, use natural fertilizer (which I guess is ruminant animals) and eat locally.

So if weā€™re comparing apples to apples, you can buy vegetables that are grown organically without pesticides or petroleum fertilizer, and buy locally, just as you can buy animal meat locally that is raised on land that is not treated with pesticides. Is that right?

I get so confused when we compare one scenario that is all good (e.g., raising ruminants that can graze their whole lives and not live in CAFOs) and then compare it to a scenario that is not good (e.g., raising vegetables with pesticides, synthetic fertilizers and trucking them far distances). In both scenarios, there are better ways to farm, no?

What Iā€™m interested in isā€¦if we used the best possible methods, which would have the best impact on the environment? Iā€™m assuming that the vegetarians would still need ruminants for natural fertilizer, etc. Likewise, Iā€™m assuming both scenarios would require local eating. Is that correct?

Thanks for the other experts - I will check them out!