Keto competition...who would have thought it would become so political?

#1

Being new to keto and at 7 weeks successfully down 23 pounds, I have consumed everything I can find in the broader keto community with respect to information and support.
Just today I read a promotion for a new keto facebook group…the author took the words right out of a podcast I listened to this week that was recorded a year ago…" Keto is a human default factory setting". -Carl 2ketodudes…then he proceeded to disrespect " bro science"
Perhaps I am too sensitive…but we’ve found something good in keto…can’t we all just get along and play nice?..
Who would have thought it would be so political?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

I don’t know what “bro science” means, but most people in the keto world are all about actual science and the data, whether they are trained scientists or laypeople.

Of course, since nutritional research is difficult and expensive, we do often find ourselves having to experiment on our own bodies and having to rely on anecdotal accounts of what has worked for others, but still I think it’s possible to keep a scientific outlook and avoid injecting personalities into the discussion.

So you’re right, it should be easy to play nice and get along. Certainly we can do that, whether others do or not.

#3

@CindyLee
In case this is about Mark Sisson, he’s been using the phrase “factory setting” or some variation for many years. Here’s from a blog post in 2011:
“The studies keep piling up indicating that carbohydrate intake is the major variable in determining body composition and that excess glucose from carbohydrate intake (especially from processed grains and sugars) is the primary culprit in obesity and in many disease processes. It follows logically that if you can limit carb intake to a range of which is absolutely necessary (and even up to 50 grams a day over) and make the difference up with tasty fats and protein, you can literally reprogram your genes back to the evolutionary-based factory setting you had at birth – the setting that offered you the opportunity to start life as a truly efficient fat-burning organism and to continue to do so for the rest of your life as long as you send the right signals to your genes.”

I hope he’s not bashing anyone on his new FB group, but he’s been beating the LC/keto drum for a long time - with this basic premise, that we’re designed to eat this way (in his mind at least some of the time), so I don’t think he’s quoting 2KD podcasts.

#4

Mark Sisson was interviewed on a podcast I listened to today re: his new book (Keto Reset Diet). It was a good listen and he gave an interesting spin to it, but I cringed at one thing. The interviewer asked him about what happens when you drop out of ketosis? and does it take days to get back in if you make some less than ideal food choices? He kind of blew it off, stating he just goes right back into ketosis no problem. Which is probably true for a muscular athlete with 10% body fat! I am not slamming him, but I felt it could be quite misleading for people with insulin resistance/ deranged metabolisms who would not likely bounce back so easily.

#5

It does seem like some folks who have been LC for a long time and who have spent extended periods in ketosis for years can dip in and out of it easily, and most chose to do exactly that rather than stay keto all the time.

The thing that I see on this forum is that if folks have serious blood sugar regulation issues, or for whatever reason just do terribly with carbs, they feel AWFUL if they slip up with (or deliberately choose to have) too many carbs. I think we can all find pretty quickly the best path for us at a given time, and N=1 is really what it comes down to anyway, and most T2D who are keto don’t WANT to go back and forth. Since Sisson recommends an extended time establishing ketosis, I think everyone, diabetic or no, would have a good baseline from which to make decisions for him/herself.

Before I started reading more about ketosis, hearing something like that in an interview would have been exactly what I needed so that it didn’t feel like a lifetime commitment (from which I would have veered pretty hard).

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

Dr. Phinney, when asked that question after a lecture, made it sound as though it takes people almost as long to get back into ketosis as it does for them to get into it the first time.

(carl) #7

It’s human nature to distinguish OUR tribe from THEIR tribe, and sometimes the smaller the difference the more the schism. I have made it a priority to avoid projecting negative juju on those I disagree with. It’s so easy to do, and so harmful to my psyche. Imagine life without undue mistrust, constantly being disappointed by other people. I just try to be the best human I can be and interact with others on their terms. The smart ones will ask questions. The secret: in the absence of knowledge about someone’s true motivation, don’t make stuff up. If you find yourself having a conversation with someone in your head, stop. Just be patient until you can actually have a real conversation. Be okay with uncertainty. Carl out. :slight_smile:

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #8

Dr Phinney also says (I’m speaking from memory here, so may not be word for word accurate), that about 30% of people overall probably do all right with carbs, (which leaves the rest of us who don’t do so well on carbs (and who don’t necessarily find losing weight all that easy, even on keto).

So the idea that there could be one “factory setting” feels unrealistically mechanistic, and actually to me, rather unattractive.

#9

I think it’s more like the “factory setting” is that we all (at least in our younger days) dip in and out of ketosis as we fast overnight. And in areas where food may not be readily available all the time, the same thing happens. Unfortunately, after a few decades with the “Western” diet of lots of sugar and starches, many of us no longer have that as a default setting anymore!

#10

Yes, I agree. @Mike_W_Ellwood, the “factory setting” idea is not that we’re all the same in how we respond to carbs but rather that humans have a natural ability to thrive on ketones. I suspect that Sisson - or whoever first used it - came up with it in response to the conventional alarm to ketosis (“What, no carbs! people die without carbs! your brain can’t function! it’s an unhealthy fad!” etc).

Factory setting = we come into this world the ability to run on ketones, that’s a default setting for us. (But actually I agree that it’s not a particularly attractive phrase…)