Keto/Carnivore + Fruit

keto
ketosis
fruit
carnivore
#1

Hello everyone!

This is my second post on this forum, hopefully, I can get some answers or direction here.

I’ve been doing great on keto since July last year, and healed myself big time. No longer prediabetic, my cholesterol looks good based on keto numbers (doctor is nagging me about increased LDL but HDL is good and triglycerides are low).

I Decided to give carnivore a go in the last month and was able to break weight plateaus and have what it felt like was unlimited energy while training weights and martial arts. My weight went from being stuck at 220 - 225 since January down to 213 in 4 weeks. Mind you I increased how much I was eating as well, but I was also training 4-6 days a week.

I stumbled across Carnivore MD (Dr. Paul Saladino) and I see that he eats organ meat, fruits, some honey and maple syrup and kefir.

I figured I’d give it a shot yesterday and feel absolutely fine, but my main question is; how does it all work??

Keto and carnivore you’re running off of ketones, however, eating the animal-based way, macros are 20/30/50 (carbs/protein/fat)

With my activity levels + body size, my caloric goal is ~2250 a day and that’s a deficit of ~500 calories.

This means to hit my macros, I need to consume ~110g of carbs and then some.

I clearly won’t be in ketosis anymore, right??

How is animal-based better or worse than strict carnivore or keto?

Thanks in advanced!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

For me, the issue is insulin and insulin-resistance. Insulin above a certain level in the blood (25 μU/mL) inhibits ketogenesis and fat burning, and promotes fat storage, instead. How much carbohydrate we can eat before our insulin goes too high depends on how insulin-resistant or insulin-sensitive we are.

Now, perhaps Dr. Saladino can eat all that sugar without raising insulin. Possibly. But there is also the issue of what all that fructose (and even table sugar, sucrose, is half fructose) is doing to one’s liver.

#3

People are different. I definitely need very low-carb so I never would do anything like you described.

And honey and maple syrup? Avoiding almost pure sugar is basic to me since I went low-carb. My body would hate that.
I can understand the pull of fruits, especially now. June is my most serious fruit season.
But sugar still isn’t great for my body so it’s accepting some non-ideal natural candy my body can handle for the joy. It’s definitely NOT healthy to me, sugar never is but harmless enough if I keep it low. I eat plenty of animal sugar too (I like my dairy), it’s fine but it’s definitely not better than keeping my carbs as low as possible. Except the part where I want to eat my (preferably animal) carbs to have variety. I drink alcohol too and that’s toxin, definitely not healthy - but the body handles it in small amounts so why not if it makes me feel not restricted?

Ketosis isn’t important for everyone. I feel the same in and out of ketosis when I am around my limit. If I go way lower, it’s LOADS better. If I go way higher, it’s way worse (especially if simple sugars are involved, I handle starches better). I had times when I did low-carb (below 80g as that is another limit, it’s not so nice above) and felt fine. Now I am at the point of my journey where I can easily do 3-20g carbs and it’s the best.
But some people are different. Do whatever works for you. Eating sugars galore is about the worst many of us can do… And I suspect it’s not ideal for the ones thriving on high-carb either. Fruits have much fructose as well and beyond some low level it’s just not good for anyone. Even my fruit lover high-carber SO can get unwell eating too much fruit, no wonder. (My limits is way lower.)

(Bob M) #4

Saladino is one of the most confusing people out there. First, he was “You have to eat raw liver! And raw eggs! But only the yolks!” Then he went to visit the Hazda, who ate honey and minor other carbs. He came back and starting eating honey. Then fruit. And now maple syrup? Ah, what?

I can’t figure out what he’s trying to achieve. And, he’s also never been fat. I’m not sure anything that applies to him applies to someone who gained 100, 150, 200+ pounds.

How does the fact that the Hazda can eat honey apply to someone like me, who gained a lot of weight, then lost some of it, but would like to lose more?

It’s not clear to me.

#5

keto and some fruit yes

carnivore and fruit no

it is kinda pick a plan and do it or if one can change and ‘be carnivore for years’ and find you can ‘add back’ some and do fantastic, then ya adopt back into a lc eating plan that suits you.

so Saladino is a PIA cause he was all carnivore to ‘fix his issues’ and thrived and then he wanted ‘foods back’ as he felt he should so he can get very confusing.

pick one only and then decide where you need to be. go all in lc/keto eating it all plan with carb limits or go all in carnivore with no sweet/zero plant carbs and see but in the end, everyone who does ONE plan and finds their personal path wins.

diff paths on time on plans. a newbie can’t be Saladino’s path ever cause he put in the work for changes and yrs on this but a new person must do the same to find themselves so that is why he can get massively confusing and don’t put a ton of faith in what he is now will work now for another kinda thinking is best.

(Edith) #6

We don’t really worry about percentages where carbs are concerned but total grams. On this forum about 20 grams per day is recommended to be in ketosis. Some people can handle more and still stay in ketosis, and some need less. I would suggest if you are going to add fruit and/or honey, still keep the quantity such that you are still keeping your insulin low. Eat your protein and fat to satiety.

I’m not sure what you mean by this question. If you are not a vegetarian or vegan then you are eating an animal based diet. An animal based diet could technically still be the SAD. As far as strict carnivore or keto is concerned, that is up to YOUR body. Many people switch to carnivore because of health issues or cravings that keto did not fix. If you find that adding in some fruit or honey works for you (maybe it adds a little extra umph at the gym or helps with electrolyte balance) that is good. If you notice that adding in those carbs awakens the sleeping monster called craving then you will know fruit does not work for you and maybe strict carnivore is better. We are all our own big experiment.

#7

Yes, I agree with all the above comnments.

For myself, I’m not carnivore, but I find myself naturally gravitating towards mainly meat/fish based meals under Keto.

The main priciple is limit carbs, especially if you have any type of metabolic syndrome.
This, for me, is perfect logic.
You can then vary the protein:lipid ratio to suit your individual needs.
But no, apart from cyclic keto (temporary), avoid carbs like the plague, would be my advice.