Keto and fat adaptation

newbies
science
ketoadaptation
fat-adapted

#1

okay can some one explain to me a few things about keto and fat adaptation. feel free to answer all or just one. Thanks friends:)

1.Which state causes more body fat loss?
2.People say you know when you are fat adapted because you can go longer between meals and more energy… I thought that was also a benefit of ketosis too?
3.they say once you are fat adapted you don’t need to eat as much fat… okay well then do you eat more protein and carbs to replace those calories or…
4. will blood ketones be lower or higher while fat adapted


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

(Carl Keller) #3

After I became fat adapted, weight loss was most dynamic. I’m guessing I lost nearly ten pounds a month at this point.

The difference is level of efficiency. After FA, your body is able to switch back and forth from burning dietary fat and stored fat depending on what you eat or don’t eat. This is what made extended fasting easy for me. Think of an engine that requires time to adjust to a newer, cleaner fuel source. Our metabolism is suddenly a student driver but with practice it learns to avoid going uphill and exactly how much pressure it needs to exert on the gas pedal so there is nothing wasted.

More protein, less fat. I stopped consciously making fat a part of my every bite of food. Less nuts and less dairy, especially cheese and butter, did not affect my hunger at all.

It fluctuates according to need. When you just wake up, your ketone levels are probably low because we don’t require a lot of energy when we sleep. If you just finish a meal, they are low because the small amount of carbs we just ate are prioritized for fuel. If you are fasting and active, ketones are probably the highest of the day because that’s when our energy demands are greatest and there is no fuel in our belly.


(M) #4

to piggyback on this thread, What is a definite indicator of being fat adapted?


(Scott) #5

Fat adapted can be best described as a slow transition and you start to become aware that:
You have more energy
less hunger
can miss a meal without distress (hangry)
Overall feeling of control
In my case at the three month mark I realized I no longer needed to rest during my morning runs. Prior to that it was as if I was wearing lead boots.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

Most people on this forum will probably respond subjectively: ie you’ll ‘feel this…’ and/or you ‘won’t feel this…’ The problem is that everyone is different and what one person subjectively experiences is not necessarily what another does. So many people end up frustrated and/or disappointed that they didn’t experience x or y the way other people talk about how great and wonderful it made them feel. Or they didn’t lose as much weight as fast as someone else so “there must be something wrong with me or what I’m doing”. How many posts have you seen titled “What am I doing wrong?” “Am I doing this right?” “Keto doesn’t work for everyone?”

There are, however, objective indicators. The first and simplest, and also the most denigrated, is the humble urine keto stick. You will continually read people say these things are useless and don’t waste money buying them. Spend your money on organic, grass-fed, free-range whatchamacallit instead. Here’s what keto urine sticks tell you:

After going onto the keto dietary regimen you will begin to detect ketones (primarily acetoacetate) in your urine. Detecting urine ketones is what is known as a ‘negative’ indicator. In other words, detecting ketones in you urine indicates you are in ketosis, but NOT yet and/or well fat adapted. So ANY ketones in your urine (does NOT matter how dark the colour, ANY) is a POSITIVE indicator of ketosis and a NEGATIVE indicator of fat adaptation/burn. In other words, you’ve reached first base. Congratulations!

As your metabolism and your cells and organs become better adapted to using ketones and fatty acids, your demand/utilization of ketones and fatty acids get more in synch. In other words, your liver no longer has to produce an oversupply of ketones to make sure everyone (cells and organs) has enough fuel to burn. So there is less and less excess to be excreted in your urine.

At some point (days, weeks?), you will have NO urine ketones. In other words, you’ve reach second base. Congratulations! If you remain in ketosis by keeping your carbs sub-20 grams per day and eat a keto-rational ratio of fat:protein, the urine keto sticks should show NO ketones in your urine. So you can use one from time to time to confirm. Totally objective, no subjective this or that.

[EDIT] See this topic for some very interesting reports about urine ketones after fat adaptation.

Once you get to the point where the lowly urine keto stick shows no ketones consistently over a few weeks, you can then consider other tools available to test/confirm the byproducts of ketosis and fat metabolism: ie blood meters, breathalyzers. These tools are not necessary, but provide interesting and somewhat useful information; and, if you have some medical condition perhaps necessary information.

Bottom line: if you are eating sub-20 grams of carbs per day and are still conscious and functioning, then you are burning fat. The longer you burn fat efficiently, the more efficiently fat adapted you get. Long term, I suspect the most useful objective indicator of fat adaptation is breath acetone (BrAce) and glucose. However, the jury is still out.


How long did it take for you to become fat adapted?
(traci simpson) #7

You can be fat adapted but not be in ketosis right?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

Maybe. Ketones are a byproduct of fat metabolism and the direct products of ketosis. If you have detectable ketones you are in ketosis. If you don’t you may or may not be metabolizing fat. In the absence of ketones only RER (respiratory exchange ratio) can confirm fat burn and how much.


(Sebastien Szczepaniak) #9

Thx for such a great informative post.
Started Keto on Jan 15th and was a bit puzzled with the fat adaptation threads and Ketostix useful/non useful debates… I think I am clear now.
I am 45 years old, very busy professional but also cycling enthusiast (5000K pa) and lifting weights 4 times a week at the gym. I was looking for a new energy level (and source) and get rid of these instant boost and non-endurance source of energy which is carb.
To be honest I am currently struggling with terrible rides (very high HR level, no power in legs…) and a so-so energy at the gym… but at the same time starting to feel “overall” better (mood, clarity, focus…). My Urine strips are still showing some ketones level so I just feel like I am in the middle of my fat adaptation time… If I read you well.
Am I right? :slight_smile:
Thx much again