Karim's muscle gain carnivore adventure

(Karim Wassef) #148

I think this is an important topic raised in another thread where safi commented that maybe the large lean mass loss in my legs (during my 19 day fast) may not have been muscle.

I had never considered that this could be actual empty fat cells (the protein sac) being cannibalized once the lipids have been removed.

Three data points:

  1. My squat strength has recovered on refeeding even though my leg mass (size) has not.

  2. My wife commented that my thighs are leaner and more vascular.

  3. I historically stored my fat in my belly/waist and inner thighs. The inner thigh fat was already substantially reduced visually even before the fast.

Thoughts on this? Is it likely that my lost leg mass is empty protein adiposite sacs?

(Karim Wassef) #149

On carnivore so far… I’m making a lot fewer veggie exceptions than I did last time. The most substantial for me are nuts…

I usually have a bowl of nuts immediately after my main meal (still OMAD) but that’s not viable now.

I tried pork rinds but it’s not as addictive.

I tried slices of cheese and cured meats … also not addictive.

I think that even though I’m at 3000 calories and over 150g protein, I feel really good and my weight is holding exceptionally well.

(Karim Wassef) #150

Just finished my workout… chest day with a little legs

Before: 57G, 0.6K = 5.3 GKI
After: 100G, 0.4K = 13.9 GKI

I might have overdone it a little… just a wee bit

(Karim Wassef) #151

Interesting observations eating carnivore multiple days in a row (especially in contrast to eating daily vegan):

  1. I used to see a lot of veggie food “bulk” in my system that caused “not me” weight gain that wouldn’t subside until I fasted for a few days. I’ve been eating for multiple days now and no “bulk”. My stomach feels tight instead of bloated. What mass I eat, I eliminate nearly all of it in 24hrs.

That might change but that’s my reflection on the lack of weight gain.

  1. The ability to take in massive protein mass in a very dense meal means that I easily shoot over my protein target. I used to struggle to get enough vegan but now I can get to it with a steak and 3 eggs… the result is that my glucose is consistently higher than vegan eating, even though my carbs are lower. My ketones are likewise much lower and I struggle to get over 1 now.

Again, only 5 days in, so things may change but I need to find the path to carnivore with higher ketones and lower glucose (lower GKI). My plan is to control protein and increase fat to satiate sooner. That’s plan A

If that fails, I’ll move to protein cycling where I go low protein for 5 days. That’s plan B

If that fails, I’ll move to protein fasting where I go to near zero protein (but eat fat) for 5 days. That’s plan C

Really rooting for plan A to work… carrot and stick

#152

Thank you, this is very reassuring.

(Karim Wassef) #153

today’s meal:

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so doing better… back under 160g protein

I may have to cut out cheeses and sliced meats to get it under 100g.

Saturday is the next DEXA … 11am.

Caloric surpluss on carnivore low carb
(Empress of the Unexpected) #154

I can’t even fathom. Four slices of bacon and a quarter head of cabbage with butter and I am done.

(Karim Wassef) #155

I have a healthy appetite. It puts my extended multi-week fasts into perspective. :smiley:

(Karim Wassef) #156

Really depressed ketones for the last two days…

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Hoping the modicum of self control today shows an encouraging change tomorrow.

I mean I did keep it under 160g protein and 3000 calories… modicum is appropriate

(Karim Wassef) #157

Day 6

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Ketones still depressed but weight looks stable around 180. I’m not big on short term weight meaning much but I’m not seeing the big upswing that usually comes with eating 3000+ cal.

One explanation is that my RMR is increasing proportionately.

Another is that the weight and water gain is offset with a cleansing of the digestive material from my vegan state last week - we’ll call that carni detox of fiber :smiley:

I like the aesthetics with more muscularity and muscle belly fullness.

(mole person) #158

What is normal for a more moderate protein keto for you?

(Empress of the Unexpected) #159

That’s a huge difference.

(mole person) #160

If you’re looking for an addictive high fat source of calories, I find not all cheeses are equal for me. Some, however, are so addictive that they ruin keto for me. My latest cheese love affair was with a 38% MF triple cream brie. I can stuff myself to bursting with meat and then eat ounces of that as if nothing had come before.

(Karim Wassef) #161

glucose of 70s-80s is normal for me when eating

(Karim Wassef) #162

I love brie… I just had some yesterday and I missed it so much over the last couple of months.

It’s not a lack of fat - I have lots of good sources to build with. It’s a preference for protein that’s my weakness… :smiley:

I am getting better. I’m going to try for 140g protein today…

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only thing I’m missing is real liver, but the liverwurst is an attempt at redemption :blush:

(mole person) #163

My taste for liver keeps going up the more I eat it. I’m getting to the point where I want a whole plate of the stuff.

(Karim Wassef) #164

So… while on extended or cyclic multi-day fasting, I used my G and K to decipher my body’s reaction to fasting and feasting… with a little focus on the effect of exercise and stressors.

Now that I’m carni daily OMAD… I’m focusing on the effects of lifting and stressors like sauna. Not focusing on GKI since I can tell that I’m anabolic with these numbers.

So… take a look - again, today - no carbs, fasted all morning. Yesterday 11g carbs and 158g protein:

Glucose:

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Ketones:

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Again … ketones last night at 0.6… this morning 0.4… before lifting 0.8… after lifting 0.4… pathetic but ok.

But now glucose last night at 88… this morning 81… before lifting 106… after lifting 94

All while fasted except for morning minerals (salts), berberine, bitter melon and my 0.8g Leucine and 1g carnitine.

These are the same supplements I took while fasted and never saw a glucose spike.

Don’t know if the protein in my food is being digested slowly due to my high fat content and it glucose triggered before I lift?

My suspicion is that my body has adapted to my workout window and it “prepping” again. In that case, it’s going through GNG to support the spike?

Finally, could just be stress? I have a stressful career and it can push me but I employ mindfulness and I feel relaxed.

Thoughts?

(Mame) #165

stress is so sneaky. Part of me thinks “if you feel relaxed you are” … but then I remember myself just this week when I got slammed with a huge deadline. I felt energized and up for it, I felt positive. I didn’t think I was stressed. Then 15 minutes later I realized I just wanted to eat! I was stressed it was coming out in another way…
but are you sleeping? feeling normal (for you) hunger? can you rest when you want to rest? is your mood equable or are you snapping at others or yourself?

(Karim Wassef) #166

I’m sleeping 7-8hrs
no special hunger - actually stuffed
wife hasn’t complained about irritability

dinner today was more on target. Not quite as planned but still 140g of protein… and 8g of carbs.

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Still 3000 calories but I’m ok with that. I’m convinced it’s revving up my metabolism. DEXA in ~ 36hrs so I’m not going to slow down now. :smiley:

(Mame) #167

well then unless you are stressed physically by your workouts (which would be odd right?) then I doesn’t seem like it’s stress