Just to play Devils Advocate

(Crow T. Robot) #25

It is, and infant mortality really brings down the average.

(debbie.segouini) #26

I’d love to be able to test insulin at home!

(Christopher John Howson) #27

yes - I think Mike Eades discusses this on a podcast I was listening to where he was giving a lecture about ancient Egyptians.

although there is not really any proof - he was says - grandparents perhaps played a vital role in the upbringing of their grandchildren, and if that mating age has a window of say 15 to 35 / 40 in women - then the age of grandparents had to be higher than that.

I like Mike Eades, he has done some really interesting stuff. I sure he intends to do more research in this area. (one would hope)

thanks for the responses, Richard. good stuff.

(Christopher John Howson) #28

me too

(Christopher John Howson) #29

this is a good point, when you think of it like that

(Christopher John Howson) #30

haha! true! maybe they have not survived that long though to tell the tale!! :slight_smile:

(CrazyScottishCatLady) #31

I totally understand peoples’ reluctance to seriously consider LC/keto/banting/paleo etc., and think is is faddish. It took me months to finally come around to agreeing with myself to try it for a month. I could not imagine being able to cope without carbs and in particular what exactly I would use to 'lift my low mood and dull the anxiety that seemed to dog me". After reading “Why we get fat” I knew I had to give it a try, the rest is history.

I don’t talk about what I do unless someone asks me and when I say I limit carbs to veggies and cook with animal fats, olive oils etc., they recoil with horror at the thought of not being able to “have bread, cakes, pasta” etc. I smile and move on.

There are many different ways of eating and surely there’s room for them all. What I would really like is for our preferred ‘diets’ to be accepted as another choice for people to be able to learn about through their GP or dietitian, particularly if they present with any of the metabolic diseases. It might be that they prefer to use medication to relieve symptoms but I bet a good number would consider diet as a way of doing this too. I heard of Christine Croneu’s difficulties on facebook recently after being targeted by the same group who hate Pete Evans and target him. This level of hatred is not normal and rather scary actually. It seems way out of proportion to what is just a slightly different way of eating that includes fats and limits carbs. Why are they so afraid of fat?

For me, I realised quite quickly that I was absolutely at home with this WOE, it suited me perfectly and what do I use to lift my low mood/anxiety issues? Well, I don’t actually have them any more. This is a side effect I wasn’t expecting, but wonderful all the same. I reckon it is something to do with stable blood sugars and no extreme highs and crashing lows any more.

As well as losing a lot of excess body fat and weight, my skin is clear, I sleep beautifully, don’t snore, no aches and pains in joints any more, can stride about rather than shuffling slowly, run up stairs rather than grabbing hold of railings and pulling myself up, no laboured breathing, no heartburn, its wonderfuI. I still have issues with constipation and these are long standing and to do with other issues. I had hoped this would also be solved but it isn’t as yet. I live with it.

I just wish for people like me who are currently struggling to succeed on low fat diets could be educated about this way of eating so they could have a choice.

(Tim W) #32

After going low sugar and then reducing carbs, I told my wife at dinner that there was “another way of eating” (keto) but it involved “more butter than I can imagine eating” that was last December; we’ve been eating some form of keto since then and damn do I love butter!

Still, being a “classically trained” certified personal trainer (from ACSM, which is funded by gatorade…booo) I continue to eat this way and see that there are no negative effects, adding another “data point” in support of this diet and against conventional wisdom.

(James Bond) #33

I believe something simillar happened to me. Very low insulin, feeling stressed which did not resolve after eating carbs(vs the beginning of my 1.5 year keto jorney when carbs ga).
High glycemic carbs/fruit started giving me hyperthyroid symptoms. Liver was stressed and did not function well(blood work was fine, though) - I could not drink coffee, alcohol or tolerate any choline(supplements, lecithin or egg yolks), had constipation and pale stools(lack of bile).

I think some mineral imbalances were in place in my case but as stated in the article a lot of minerals need insulin to get into cells(potassium, magnesium…).

I’m sure the only way for me to survive was to exit keto.
I should maybe do it only seasonally rather than all the time.

(Ken) #34

Here’s the relevant info on longevity comparisons.


If you study the history of food. The long ago ancestors were keto most of the year. Fruits and berries having a very short seasonal window, and spoiling quickly. Even regions that were making bread did so with the full fiber and bran cancelling out a lot of the carbohydrate.

(Doug) #36

In a lot of areas, yeah, Wishbone. And when I think of the refined carbohydrates in the past… ugh.

I was in two grocery stores today, and was often surrounded - quite a few aisles were worthless to me, the potato chips, sugary cereals, marshmallows, crackers, cookies, candy…gah!

(Tim W) #37

But it makes grocery shopping soooo much easier! I find I’m in and out of the store in 1/2 the time since I’m not looking at every label for sugar, calories, carb counts etc… I hit the outer areas, dip into the chip isle for pork finds, bop over to the nut isle and maybe by the cleaners and then it’s eggs and out! I love it!

(Mike Glasbrener) #38

2/3rds of the grocery store is dead to me. Cereal aisle, frozen “food”, bread, pasta… the list goes on. As far as shopping goes between meat (anchovies too), leafy veggies (avocados too), cheese, eggs and macadamia nuts I’m usually completely done.

(Norma Laming) #39

Yes, somewhere in the original Atkins book that I read decades ago, he wrote something like ““eat all you want” does not mean “eat all you can”” .

I find that hard, as someone who can vast quantities of eat heavy cream for pure pleasure

(Ken) #40

Atkins didn’t do very well with many of his explanations. He never explained it is the reduction/elimination of leptin resistance and reestablishment of a normal leptin response that provides the appetite regulation.

People become fat because they overeat, but it is because their nutritional pattern, mainly in the macro nutrient sense, created leptin resistance, causing them to overeat.

(Steve Stephenson) #41

Here are four lectures on the same topic in chronological order:

Dr. Mike Eades - ‘Paleopathology and the Origins of the Paleo Diet’, https://youtu.be/RprGtr_cHlY, Recorded at Low Carb Vail, February 26, 2016, published on Low Carb Down Under on Mar 21, 2016.

‘Paleopathology and the Origins of the Paleo Diet’ - Michael Eades, MD, https://youtu.be/VSRDfkt-wJY,
Physicians for Ancestral Health, Published on May 10, 2016.

The Origins of the Low-Carb Diet – Dr. Michael Eades, https://www.dietdoctor.com/member/presentations/eades-sd#more-378943,
Recorded at the Low Carb USA conference in July 2016.

AHS16 - Michael Eades - Paleopathology and the Origins of the Paleo Diet, https://youtu.be/0RLlpPf22-E, AncestryFoundation, Streamed live on Aug 13, 2016.

They are not carbon copies so there are interesting tidbits that are not replicated.

(Always take time to stop and eat the bacon) #42

Being new to ketosis, I am still learning to distinguish between real hunger and craving carbs. But I find it interesting to be eating a meal and suddenly realize I’m done, even though there’s still food on my plate.

Under the other way of eating, I was always at risk of busting a gusset, because what I wanted was always more than I could eat, physically speaking. I am capable of eating a pound of spaghetti, getting a stomach ache, and still feeling hungry.

(Always take time to stop and eat the bacon) #43

I thought it was the other way round, that we overeat because our body is so busy putting fat into our adipose tissue that our cells are starving. The explanation that makes more sense to me is the one involving fat storage under the regulation of insulin, not the relative levels of leptin and ghrelin, which seem to be more like results than causes.

(Richard Morris) #44

Humans eat for more reasons than just nutrition. We eat because we are bored, lonely, scared, aroused, etc. Once you’ve got the derangement caused by insulin out of the picture … you may still have to deal with pathological eating. I could probably eat a lot of cream too. But the thing is I rarely eat past my off switch because having an off switch for me is such a novel thing I’m enjoying the experience.

Overeating because they eat the wrong food is certainly one explanation.

That is another. And both are facets of the problem.

Another way of looking at this is from the point of view of the energy status of the cell.

If people over produce insulin, that inhibits fats getting into their mitochondria to be converted into energy. Access to glucose is usually inhibited by insulin resistance as cells try to protect themselves from hyperinsulinaemia. This explains the paradox of a man swimming in energy (glucose and NEFA) and hungry and lethargic.

And that increasing insulin explains why leptin has to become deranged. It also explains why Adipose cells have to become deranged. Also why the pancreas has to become deranged. And why these are all force multipliers upon the derangement.

Example take adipose derangement. The pancreas makes more insulin when there is fat AND glucose present in circulation. It likely does that to signal adipose tissue to draw down energy and store it - adipose is supposed to remove fat from circulation when there is glucose available. As fat turns of the fat spigot, the pancreas calms down and makes less insulin.

Fat cells can become increasingly more insulin resistant as they become stuffed with energy … and as they become resistant to insulin they release more fat into circulation even when insulin is high, so now the pancreas has to make more insulin and the fat cells are like deaf people being yelled at. That is then a perfect recipe for a runaway control system.

Diabetic obesity is a series of runaway trains. All started by an overproduction of insulin, and each runaway train further piling on more demand for insulin. What causes the original insult is much debated, but one of the early possible causes is the environment in the womb.

This is insulin. It is a massive molecule containing over 150 amino acids


This is a glucose molecule


Glucose gets through the placental barrier, insulin doesn’t for obvious reasons. If the mother has a lot of glucose in circulation that she herself is able to make plenty of insulin to deal with, then she won’t be considered diabetic. However the fetal pancreas has to run at a higher rate to control the loads of glucose coming in. That is like a starter kit for insulin resistance for the child. That is pretty early on in the process.