This is the link: ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ It goes to Dr. Saladino’s web site.
I haven’t listened to a Dr. Saladino podcast in awhile. He always came across as a bit of a desperate reformed vegan in my ears. But he has been through the mill with food reactions. And it’s good to drift out of the echo chamber occasionally to check on the real world, I reckon.
Do you have fascial plane pain (plantar fasciitis)? Fibromyalgia?
Has anyone thrown off the coffee addiction?
Absolutely not. I am 100% addicted to coffee. Have loads of the stuff. In the grand scheme of life I have never found it to be a problem. Now, my sugar addiction absolutely was a problem and resulted in some very bad health outcomes. Coffee… not so much.
I’ve gone without coffee for months at a time and just felt a trifle sluggish and stupid, even after withdrawal was over. Never noticed any grand benefits.
I know coffee is negative for me, I even try to quit, it’s just surprisingly hard. I don’t even understand why. No coffee doesn’t cause me any problems, I just can’t do it if there is coffee around me. But I am nothing if not stubborn. Thanks, I need every help though the list of problems coffee causes is already motivating - except I doubt I ever did anything food/drink related change from motivation. More like curiosity, health consciousness (it’s not perfect and anyway, the negatives of coffee for me isn’t health related, at least not physical health. there may be such a component but it must be negligible), entertainment and other kinds of joy…
I used to look at coffee as “mostly harmless” but for me, it’s a serious addiction. It does about nothing to me physically, I don’t get any more awake or anything (so I can drink it from morning to bedtime, I do tend to swap to water and tea in the late hours as I prefer fasting there but not always. actually, I prefer fasting in the morning too, that’s a major problem with drinking coffee before, like, 3pm. when quitting seems impossible, that’s my goal. no coffee until 3pm. or after 8pm, I want a proper fasting window… an actual one as if I drink coffee with a tad of cream, that’\s not really fasting albeit close).
So, for me, more or less quitting coffee is important and a glaringly obviously good thing. I don’t care about the tiny bad stuff in it. We drink plastic with our water, breathe who knows what, the food isn’t perfect either - yes, we should put effort into minimizing those but the tiny coffee hardly could make a noticeable difference. For me, at least, I am not so sensitive.
(I drink weak coffees if someone would think my coffein intake is high. I don’t think so but honestly, I don’t care and never counted it. My body would tell me if it would be oh so high.)
I do want to keep coffee but just a tad in some desserts and maybe very occasionally a drink. It helps when I have a headache. The aching head stays about the same (just like using any painkiller I have, they all stopped working) but I do feel a bit better and comforted, it’s probably partially the habit and experience tightly bound to the coffee and partially the joy of cream though I used black coffee for headache before but it’s better to have something nice and I don’t always like black coffee that much (usually not).
My wife likes it better without coffee.
Also, there’s a whole movement about mold in coffee. Maria Emmerich, for instance, recommends quitting coffee due to mold, or at least taking a more active role in determining where your coffee comes from and how it’s processed.
I still have my one coffee drink per day, and my one cup of tea per day.
After starting carnivore I just lost my taste for it. Even if I bulletproof it it’ll upset my stomach.
I’m just doing one cup of bulletproof tea in the morning ms now but when I run out of this bag of tea I’m going to quit it altogether.
I have fibromyalgia. In 1994 I was the youngest case Mayo Clinic had seen up to that point. I was only 28 years old. I had every trigger point on their chart and extreme sensitivity in every location, so much so they couldn’t complete the EMG on me.
I love coffee on the days I didn’t get good sleep. It helps a lot. But … I do notice when I wean myself off (which I do a few different times a year due to my waffling on the science) and get past the week-long headaches due to its absence, I feel much, much better. Mentally and physically. And my trigger points aren’t so tender. I never really thought about that being related to whatever I’m drinking after soaking a ground coffee bean, whether it be a pesticide or other chemicals, mold, or caffeine. I do know I have a notable allergy to mold and formaldehyde, which affect my mood/emotional stability and causes intense headaches and nausea, and I wonder if the ground coffees we buy have any of that stuff in it?
I have watched some videos about good sleep again… I am not an early one and that must matter (no way I go to bed early but I probably would try for energy. but I doubt that is the way for me) but giving up coffee is theoretically possible. I collect tiny reasons to quit though it’s very obvious I should. And while I sleep a lot as I can’t not to (I would just fall asleep), summer heat already mess with it and just because I normally am not sleep deprived, my energy level is never great. (Okay, it wasn’t when I barely drank coffee either… I think. I don’t remember those times well.)
Well people like me who get nothing really positive and some negative from coffee, should try to live without it. If they can do it somehow.
I don’t like coffee anymore (except in desserts, it’s nice there) but it doesn’t mean it’s easy to quit.
I have, a couple of times over the years. It involves two weeks of headaches and irritability, which you can indeed get through.
I’ve learned two things about coffee in the years since I joined these forums: (1) coffee is terrible on a ketogenic diet, because it inhibits ketosis; and (2) coffee is wonderful for a ketogenic diet, because it promotes ketosis. You pays your money and takes your pick.
I also found it odd that Paul Saladino, the promoter of eating fruit and honey, is on an anti-coffee kick, on the grounds that it contains plant toxins. I don’t think plants necessarily want us to eat their seeds, even when they package them in sugar. And I’m sorry, but I have enough trouble with pollen in the air, without eating more that’s been dissolved in a viscous solution of sucrose, fructose, and water.
I also notice that the discussion is always about coffee, never tea. Is that because the caffeine in tea is somehow different? And what about high-caffeine fizzy drinks/soda pop/colas?
Don’t they? They put there all the sugar and visual cues to make others eat those. Some plants NEED a specific animal species to eat their seeds in order to be able to reproduce, they simply go extinct without them. So yes, many plants do want animals to eat their seeds or at least the fruit flesh as it may be fine to throw away the seeds somewhat farther from the mother plant too.
I wondered about this a few times, maybe fruits aren’t bad toxin (or whatever can be negative for us and not the sugar part) wise (not like I have any problems with anything in edible plant matter, they never hurt me, after all) - but it’s a moot point in most cases because fruits (mostly the non-wild ones) are just way too sugary for me to play a significant role in my life (and I don’t physically need them anyway). And the tiny amount probably gives me a nice health boost through mental health (I mean, I don’t feel miserable to miss out on them and feel high joy. some fruits are among the few ones that can taste as great as good pork for me! nothing is tastier than good, very thoroughly fried/roasted pork with a little salt but sometimes something else is just as good. Oh it’s not just the taste but the enjoyment. Great taste alone can’t make me really enjoy something for some reason. So, some fruits are pure bliss just like good pork on a very good day and surely does good to me).
Not all fruits we eat contains seeds anyway 
Yeah, let’s talk about those too!
Well I WON’T give up my tea, I have problems with coffee even today. Maybe tomorrow I will be better… Hard to break this habit. I see absolutely nothing bad with my tea, I merely desire the freedom where I can choose to drink only water all day… My SO does it. Tea once in a blue moon, coffee even less often, nothing else. Not even carbonated water, what’s wrong with him? 
Booze only if I drink too, we usually share beers as they don’t come in small enough cans for me and he is very content with his 2-3dl share. I would love to have that. Why I expect taste and joy from my drinks I don’t know, maybe it’s a hedonist thing even though drinking water can be pure bliss too. But not all day, at least I am not like that.
Sodas (and the like? I don’t know which are called “soda”) are just bad, why would we drink those? Yes, I had some when I really badly needed an effective caffeine ages ago (it was an energy drink/cola or go to sleep on the highway on my motorbike, maybe forever. coffee and tea never had any effect) but it was super rare especially after I went low-carb and it wasn’t hard for me to avoid boring roads in hot summer weather. But I would have figured out something eventually anyway, I was pretty much against such drinks but tolerated them once in a blue moon.
But each to their own, we should consider pros and cons.
Good point. I wonder if places like China and other locations where they drink a ton of tea are freaking out too? Or maybe tea has “good” antioxidants, while coffee has “bad” antioxidants?
By the way, for my cup of tea, I do the thing where you use the tea leaves to brew multiple cups of tea, typically at least 5 cups for me over 5 days, sometimes 7 cups over 7 days. I wonder what I’m growing in my tea while it sits there for 5-7 days at room temp? (I do heat it to 190 while brewing, but that’s only a few minutes a day.)
Wow. I am not very anxious about using my tea leaves for days but I get a rotten smell and taste before a week I am moderately sure… A few happens, sadly because I drink too much coffee to drink my few liters of tea in 1-2 days… But I hope I can quit coffee tomorrow 
It’s about the complex coffee with its oxalates and theobromines, as well as the caffeine, and other deconstructionist thoughts. The way the complex biochemistry of the absorbed coffee interacts with the brain, heart and gut is the interesting stuff. There is a lot more than blocking adenosine receptors at work in the potion.
Yes… And No. I can and do go weeks without a cup. So I am passed the addiction.
I use it more as medicine. I will dissolve a NicNac (Nicotine Tablet) in a cup, and ingest it slowly if my ADHD is out of control.
As for Paul Saladino. The CIRS groups I am in ALL think he likely has CIRS (like Mikhaila Peterson found out she has), and we know he already found mold in his bathroom. (There is a link between Fibromyalgia and Mold Illness).
And we know that coffee beans are actually often moldy, like peanuts.
As a CIRS patient. ANYTHING that adds my inflammation load is problematic. What is a 1-2 reaction for most people (a tickle in their throat, or a sneeze) can be a 9-10 for me (sinuses so plugged I have to mouth breathe, or pitting edema that can change my shoe size).
For the normies trying to wrap their brain around what this does to your body, Dr. Bikman confirmed… Immunologic Inflammation (CIRS) can lead to an elevated insulin level (even insulin resistance). One of our “low energy (fatigue)” symptoms is called hypometabolism. Imagine eating carnivore. AND NOT getting the benefit of little-to-no insulin. Worse, because insulin is in the system, fat burning is turned off (forcing us to fast longer to see ketones).
For me, while I was exposed to unknown mold in our house. Eating the lion diet, my glucose would spike after every meal (Gluconeogenesis) (and I would get Gout attacks, as well). But, remediating the house, and cleaning, and replacing the A/C and all the windows, etc. etc. And now… Out of exposure… My body reacts by giving me more ketones, and I no longer get Glucose Spikes after the exact same meal.
Years Ago, Jackie Ebbers (Dr. Atkins original nurse) spoke with me on the phone because of my weird symptoms, I was seeking her help. She said “I will pass, because I can tell you are going to be a difficult case… Just remember, NOT ALL inflammation is from the diet. While the diet can help, it cannot fix what it isn’t causing!”
TBH, I was broken hearted at her answer, and I did not completely GROK what she was saying. NOW… I do. I believe about 10% of us find this WOE because it helps. But we struggle because of our environment, or other issues.
Keep an open mind towards those who are struggling. You might be assuming they are cheating, because you know what works for you. I am here to remind everyone that we each have our own journey. And while we can share the road, and the process… Nobody can walk for another on this path… But we can walk together, we can encourage, and we can support. We can set examples… And we can help celebrate those that stick with it… No matter what life throws at them! As well as those who fall off the wagon… And those that get back on.
I think that might be true.
I listened to a podcast from two people who went to visit groups of Hazda and Maasai and other cultures, mainly in Africa. They kept remarking on how unclean everything was, in terms of the knives they used for instance, yet no one was getting sick. I often wonder if we don’t keep everything too clean. My dishwasher, for instance, cleans at very high temperatures. Saw one study where they had some families wash everything by hand for a while, and those families got benefits like fewer allergies. I don’t think this is the study of what I’m thinking of, but it’s similar:
@Shinita It might be the type of tea? Although I’ve done this with green tea, Pu-Erh tea, and even black tea. Usually Pu-Erh tea though, which is known for being able to produce a lot of cups of tea from one set of tea leaves. I’ve done well with green tea, too. Black tea doesn’t seem to last that long though.
Maybe. It was ages ago I had Pu-Erh though I remember even that didn’t last as long as your tea apparently does I use all tea leaves multiple times but I normally mix my black tea with chai (very minimal black tea with spices) and the spices last very long and I want to use them until they are very apparent
