and this is what carnivore is all about good post Azi!
in general…we all have our own timeline on how it goes down for each of us but as we hold zc, we change. our appetites will come and go, flip around some, especially more if we monkey a bit on our foods and get in our own way, (not saying this about you Azi :)) I am saying about that in general from many carnivores who do get off track sometimes, but key being, listen to the body and keep the eating simple is key to this whole transition. Our bodies tell us what it wants, when it wants it, we have to just listen. Hard to do for alot of us, I know I had many times I just didn’t listen, now I do and am very well settled in zc now. But yea, I had to walk thru some issues I had to tackle also coming into this lifestyle but more I just ate when hungry, didn’t when not, had hankering for bigger fat meals I ate them as needed and just followed what the body is asking for. Most of us longer term carnivores understand this and just follow what meats/seafood fish and fowl work for us on what day.
@SecondBreakfast
Sending big hugs and prayers for your family SB! So sad to hear she has passed.
@Ketodaisy
HI KD!! Glad to see you post!! Yea we chat alot around here as you know LOL
fasting? still zc, but trying fasting with it? be careful how that goes down for ya!
Hi Keto_Lou, eating smaller meals more often can help those who have had their gallbladder removed and eating fat is causing problems. My friend needed to take bile salts. If you’re needing to up your calories a bit, maybe either of these things could help?
Looking forward to the day my pants unexpectedly slip down! Thanks for the good laugh.
Hey hey Fangs, so eating carnivore when eating fewer cals than one “needs” (I put needs in " " b/c all the calorie calculators etc are just guessing and/or using averages and we’re all individual) won’t lower your resting metabolic thingiemajig and lower your metabolism? I’m fascinated by the thought a way of eating like carnivore and keto can heal things like this. I’m also guessing all those calorie calculators and other ways of calculating calorie needs have gotten their data from folks eating SAD and similar, making their numbers to some extent totally useless to us!
@SecondBreakfast Very sorry to hear she went so fast. Blessings and peace to you and your family in the weeks to come. @Ketodaisy Howdy, I’ve been thinking of you! Glad you’re here. Good luck with your fast. @Karen18 Really glad to hear you’re back to the old job. It was boring before but now it’s a safe haven, LOL! Glad your line manager understood and moved so quickly for ya!
LOVE that boa, now that I understand what it is. I kept seeing an ostrich boa stretched across the fence and couldn’t figure it out The flowers look great on it. @Fangs Looking forward to following y’all on another RV beach expedition! I had to read your post to hubby to emphasize how nice it would be to have a little RV just to get to VA and back instead of paying for motels and eating whatever survives the coolers on the way. Since the puppy, 5 1/2 years ago, we haven’t done restaurant meals on that trip, which is good, I’d be throwing down steaks and running up the bills if we were! LOL
Yes I’m glad of “eat as much as you want and don’t count anything.” I love that it’s okay to listen to my OWN body when it tells me stuff. I haven’t yet run into any very rough situation where somebody’s trying to feed me something and I have to talk my way out of it… but foregoing that I know I can do this for the rest of time.
We thought we were going to meet a local winery owner to talk musical performance as he puts on lots of events; but he changed it to tomorrow. So, we had breakfast of eggs and bacon about 10 - I cooked a 12 oz pack of bacon and ate 3 with 3 eggs and a big glass of ice water, then was hungry 2 hours later and ate the last 3 pieces. Mid-afternoon I was copying music and fixed an ice coffee (double espresso) with cream, so good I had another! At 6:30 I mixed mayo, and diced some chicken and a boiled egg. I have a fasting blood draw in the morning so didn’t want to eat any later or have a drink. My drinks lately are weaker and weaker. Just a splash in the glass and then filled with club soda. Working it down to the point where I just wave the scotch bottle over the glass and call it a day!
My brother just called from his hospital bed. Lots of interventions today. Due to the hospital food they’re giving him insulin but when he gets home he’ll revert to his keto diet. His 4 hr surgery ran to 7 hours due to the amount of compression between the discs in his cervical vertebrae - doc had to untangle all those battered nerves! But I’m glad he came through it and he’s talking, sounds like his old self, AND he will be half an inch taller!
The deck is so breezy this time of the evening. Hubby went in to eat something so I get to sit out here and type to you. Even at over 90 degrees when we came out here, the breezes were so wonderful, it was comfortable to sit. I took a couple shots of the birdies for y’all.
@Ketodaisy, ohhh, very understandable KD!!! I hope it all works well for you too and I certainly would love to see some mega food pics from ya but fasting, darn won’t be seeing any right now Keep on doing what works best for you in your life for sure!
well what I mean is a person is not forcing any fasting. on carnivore one might have a few days of eating less but then the appetite revs back up and one eats very well. So it isn’t some ‘forced fast’ we ‘impose’ on ourselves at all and alot of times it is for very short stints, we just get more and more nutritionally and hormonally balanced as we heal the body and some days our bodies don’t want as much food as this happens. For each of us this will be directed by our own timeline against what healing/repairing and re-balancing the body has to accomplish. Most carnivores don’t stay ‘not hungry’ for very long and it will be intermittent so when it happens we are not hungry, we just don’t eat and don’t worry about it, cause it will change again but everyone will walk a bit of a different path thru this transition/heal time too.
we can not guess ever how many calories or fat intake amt for the day our bodies require. we can’t even pretend to know that LOL but when we hit carnivore we know one thing, we eat animal proteins and animal fat. Done. So if we just allow the body to tell us how much to eat, when to eat and let nature change our physical demands as it repairs itself, then we will fall into a very natural food pattern that is required for us.
I had days I ate nothing. A few in a row and then days I ate 3-4 lbs of meat easily and I thought nothing of the days I wasn’t hungry…what scared me more was eating a ton on some days. I thought I was overeating but that is never a factor on zc. We don’t overeat at all, if we eat meat cause we are hungry and need it, then it won’t and can’t ever be labeled as overeating as all zc veterans said to me, it is just your body repairing and changing and just live thru the changes when new on zc and don’t look back. Drop all the old dieting baggage in your brain cause it mostly never applies to a zc lifestyle. And to me they were all correct cause it worked just the way they said it would. You are hungry, not hungry, just change your body/eating patterns and everything falls into a very natural lifestyle if one holds this plan long enough to get thru transition and adaption.
What we are fixing is our metabolism Our bodies will direct us on how to do that and tell us what to eat as it needs to repair and heal itself. No use getting in the way of what it needs to do. But many do get in the way thinking they do know better than what their body is directly telling them, that is when it goes more bad. Fighting against what the body is saying when it wants to change a certain way is a tough call to do cause in the end, most times, the body and brain win against us well it would work that way for me.
One of the simplest and most important single liners about zc is eat when hungry. Don’t eat when not hungry.
yea a small rv with a kitchen and fridge would be a great thing for ya. Alot of times we stop in a rest area along the highway. being I have a genny on board we fire it up, I got the entire rv kitchen to do any cooking etc. so that helps. Eating out is just so overrated and just something I don’t enjoy anymore mostly…now a great steak house every now and then, yea I can get in the mood for that, but not much more
Super happy to hear your bro came thru ok and is in good spirits. 1/2 inch taller! that is insane!! I hope his recovery goes well.
----------------wow guys July is almost over.
today I got a nice 12 oz. ribeye steak and then I got a 1.8 lb. pork loin roast. fat cap is on the other side and I am gonna 1/2 this sucker. I am cooking the fat cap roast for me personally and then the meatier side, I am cooking separately with bbq sauce for family. good way for us to split a nice roast and I get the best darn part, all that fatty goodness…wee…
Yeah, I am not so much into eggs so I don’t belong to ones eating them galore. It’s not even 10 a day as my SO have some too.
10 is easy when I am not into eggs… Interestingly, more is hard even when I am. Desire and appreciation doesn’t mean I don’t get bored after 10-12… And I try not to overdo eggs anyway as they aren’t as satiating as meat. And I like meat now and one pound is a modest amount but many calories (unless it’s quite lean) and I eat my other things and overeating is a real danger…
Swap keto to carnivore, doesn’t matter. Keto is keto to me, carnivore included. Some people starve on keto, be it carnivore or not. People are different, even their carnivore is different.
Starving is bad, even on carnivore. I did very low meat carnivore but my protein and fat was good, it wasn’t ideal but my metabolism wasn’t in danger… But as we see, some people manage to starve on carnivore (just like some manage to overeat) and they actually need to focus on something that results in better energy intake.
NOT everyone should listen to their bodies as the body can be confused, the mind can interfere etc. So one may end up in a very bad place. It doesn’t necessarily get resolved automatically soon enough. If one sees the very clear bad signs, it’s very right to tweak something to avoid the negative consequences.
Not everyone is healthy enough physically or mentally to get enough food, maybe it’s too much dieting in the past or circumstances or tastes… There are so many reasons to have problems with eating enough. I would have starved on a meat only diet in the beginning, that’s sure I couldn’t eat much meat, I was comfortable with, like, half a pound a day? I would have gone hungry to avoid force feeding myself with some boring food. If I don’t want the food, I may lose hunger. And definitely can lose appetite, it easily goes below zero and I can’t eat like that.
I am pretty sure timing and food choices are key but as I barely have experiences with undereating, never was shy with fat and my body isn’t sensitive, there are a bunch of situations I have no idea about… But I am sure that in many cases when we eat too much or too little, tweaking should involve food choices and possibly timing as well. Just continuing the wrong, dangerous eating, waiting for things magically get fixed isn’t good for everyone.
@Ketodaisy: Good luck! I wish I could do EF but I will try harder to ensure OMAD on most days for now… Of course I haven’t a reason like you so it’s harder for me. When I get determined, that always helps.
@MeganNZ: As far as I know, starving always slows down metabolism, it makes perfect sense, actually. Just eating at an energy deficit shouldn’t, it does in unlucky cases but most of us lose fat that way, with a proper deficit. Or with a too big deficit but it eats up more than minimal amount of muscles and slows down metabolism so not a good idea.
You are right, if you never figured out, you can’t calculate your maintenance calories… There is a guesstimation and it may or may not be close to the real number.
It actually doesn’t matter in my case. My maintenance calories are the same on every woe, apparently, too bad I didn’t get an extra allowance on keto or even on carnivore. But that hardly can be significant anyway… Or can it? I don’t know. But whatever is the case, the inaccuracy of the calculators is quite bad in some cases like me and my SO’s… Our metabolism is just quicker than what is calculated from our stats.
Our needs are… Individual. I couldn’t even depend on the (more correct, IMO) protein needs, ever. I am hungry if I eat so little protein even if my protein source is quite good and satiating. Pork, beef? I still need high protein…
But if it’s about certain needs, carnivore definitely changes things. It’s possible it has something to do with the energy need for some, many people talk about hormones and certain items messing with fat-loss, after all.
@JJFiddle: Oh, hummingbirds! I need to be content with our hummingbird hawk moths and I am I don’t see many of them now but we have zillions of butterflies…
Not first and not when our activity is all over the place but if the latter isn’t a problem, eventually we can figure it out. Under the right circumstances, at least. it’s not that simple for everyone. I always lose fat if I eat little enough and never if not (carbs play no role beyond the effect on my calories), my energy need is pretty stable too as far as I can tell so it’s pretty simple for me. Practically, I can’t lose fat but I know how I could do it…
I can’t track accurately but that’s fine as nothing is accurate anyway. I have some vague idea how much I should eat, some even more vague idea how on Earth could I do that… And I don’t do it. But it’s still 2022 and I am hopeful.
Oh of course I only know my vague needs as average! Sometimes I am sure I need more as my body is pretty insistent at getting way more than usual. And it doesn’t feel a malfunction. I surely eat a bit wrong in the previous days and it’s a correction. I have this strongest when I eat a ton of meat after low-meat days. It’s an irresistible feeling and I can kind of understand it.
I realized the worst months are basically over. June and July are the “no way I can do carnivore-ish for a whole week, no matter what” months for me, it’s WAY better in the other months. January to April are the theoretically easy ones (I still messed them up until now but hopefully I will evolve enough not to do it next time, I changed a lot since the last time!) but the next months have good chances too.
So I go for proper carni weeks, at least 2 but possibly 3 in August, October and December and my goal is full carni month for September and November as they have no fruit seasons (I think) and it’s a too nice chance to pass. And I had more than enough fruit in June already, July was a bit hard as I couldn’t fully avoid them. I can’t always eat whatever I fancy, I still have compulsions and accidents and wrong mindless decisions. And I hate eating carbs especially sugars when I don’t want them, it’s not hedonistic.
Is it an eating disorder or just some other mental problem? Rhetorical question.
well that is the biggest difference S. Carnivore is not keto and won’t ever be so we truly can’t lump what experiences happen in keto against what happens in carnivore for anyone. Most can draw some correlations on our changes and progress but keto will never be zc. When one chats zc one is chatting just that point blank!! You can confuse the 2 if ya want, but for people on the plan there is no swap one for the other One only experiences real truths and benefits from carnivore and understands these body, mind and soul changes IF they acutually DO the plan!
You are right in that one can narrow down our kcal intake and our fat intake etc. the longer we hold and stay on any eating plan and how we change what foods we eat and our fat intake as time goes by we can figure out ‘kinda where’ we are landing. I do agree wtih that but it takes big time for that to occur. Most people come into an eating lifestyle change with ‘set in place’ limits and restrictions before they even know where their body is gonna land or what it requires to heal and change so…that is the baggage we have to unload and let the food do the work. our meat/fat heals us and then we know ourselves so much better thru time on this carnivore lifestyle. Time on this plan is a big key factor for newbies to truly understand why this lifestyle is so rewarding.
yes I could just see a feather Boa on the fence lol made me giggle sitting here on the tram! Loving the birdies and your terrace is super with lovely views. Thats the only thing I am lacking which is probably why I try to make my space as interesting as possible x
i think I’ll go for the rump steak, even though i probably prefer the sirloin.
The sirloins have longer use by dates on them, so…
Yeah- that’s the good thing about my upcoming ‘trial’…I love steak and indeed i can’t think of any meat I don’t like. Trying to think…is there any meat i don’t like?
Up at 4.30am again did my stair runs then ran to tram terminal. This past couple of days there has been tram works in Nottingham so I’ve had to get off about 2 stops before and walk the rest of the way to where I get off tram. Got to know a really lovely chap who works around the corner from the stop so we have walked and chatted together. Ordinarily I would have been in too much of a hurry to walk and talk but the new relaxed me (since my Stroke) thinks to hell with rushing lets do this! He’s from Nigeria and speaks very good English which is just as well as I can’t speak Nigerian I will ask him to teach me hello next week. The ladies I’ve come to know took the bus that was laid on to ferry everyone to the other side of the tram works !
Another boring day but thats not a grumble, rather a boring day than stressful. My BP was down a considerable amount this morning … I guessed it would be … its been raised for past week
Brunch was chicken thigh re heated in butter and a hard boiled egg. I had the egg earlier at 10.45 because when 8 eat it after the chicken it doesn’t rest easy when I start running for the tram after work🤑
Dinner was 2 frying steaks out of same pack as yesterdays gristley ones but these were thinner and much nicer and followed them with 2 cheapo beef burgers.
In bed ready for another early start tomorrow. No dancing tomorrow afternoon as I have a hair appt.
@Fangs is the fat cap the rind? We only seem to get rind and the thick layer of fat on shoulder so I rarely buy the loin.
@JJFiddle my friend daughter had a rod inserted into her spine when she was 15 as she had curvature of the spine and when I next saw her she was a good 3 to 4 nches taller and although she wasn’t a big girl she had become so slender and it was all due to the rod and her new posture!
Starving is BAD on every woe. Keto, carnivore, vegan, whatever. Carnivore isn’t some snowflake where general bad things become okay. It was the opinion (and actually fact) I wanted to convey.
Carnivore will always be keto to me, it’s subset of keto, clearly. Below my ketosis carb limit.
The non-ketogenic part is something I can’t comprehend but frankly I don’t even care. It’s below 45g net carbs so it’s keto to me. But it doesn’t matter, both are diets so both need to give us enough nutrients, that’s it. Starving causes problems, not eating non-animal things can’t undo it, clearly.
I only said the keto as it’s a keto forum, carni is jeto just even stricter and when people lower carbs, they often tend to eat less. But it’s not important. Forget the keto part, fine. Starving is bad and one should make changes asap if they notice they do it AND they even have very bad experiences with undereating.
I could handle some starving. I like to be safe and not mess with my metabolism even for 2 days but I never starved beyond 11 days once and I bounced back quickly. With a worse past, one should be more cautious. But everyone should forget about “trusting the plan” if it’s already a longer term starving, like one ate 400 kcal on carnivore since a month. I don’t care what you say, it’s clearly serious and one MUST change it asap. But make it 1000 kcal, still starving for almost everyone and if it’s not short term, it mess up our metabolism. And we don’t want to function poorly and for proper body functions we need our normal energy need, not some starvation induced subpar one.
My day. Well I ate way less and way leaner meat today, eggs and pâté, mostly. It was fine but I really don’t like pork shoulders I think.
And now I am in a somewhat bad mood because I thought about money and whatnots and I don’t know why I want to do carnivore when someone with my financial situation and pretty indulgent body should eat seitan with split peas… Dying would be more proper but I have various problems with it.
But I will get better until Monday I suppose.
Btw I was wrong. So many things start earlier this year. Williams pear season arrived. It was supposed to happen at the middle of August. Oh well. It isn’t such a big deal.
How lucky! I have PLENTY… And I can’t afford most kinds of meats. Good thing I am usually fine with the subset and my non-meat items.
I wondered about a vegetarian carnivore day for fun… And because I only want pork chuck and I don’t have pork chuck. Well I go for sausages tomorrow, that should work too…
If your eating when your hungry you shouldn’t be starving… I can eat my 1st meal at 130.and don’t eat again til 7-8pm because I’m just not hungry…im pretty sure sometimes eating becomes just a habbit…so im not going to eat unless im actually hungry…
I have found eating the two eggs on the side of my meat for both meals has dropped my hunger for meat alot but since eggs contain so much nutrients I’m fine with that…
And eggs are a hell of alot cheaper than meat…
good post Azi!
Keep on doing what works best for you in your life for sure!
Our bodies will direct us on how to do that and tell us what to eat as it needs to repair and heal itself. No use getting in the way of what it needs to do. But many do get in the way thinking they do know better than what their body is directly telling them, that is when it goes more bad. Fighting against what the body is saying when it wants to change a certain way is a tough call to do cause in the end, most times, the body and brain win against us 
I couldn’t eat much meat, I was comfortable with, like, half a pound a day? I would have gone hungry to avoid force feeding myself with some boring food. If I don’t want the food, I may lose hunger. And definitely can lose appetite, it easily goes below zero and I can’t eat like that.
I will ask him to teach me hello next week. The ladies I’ve come to know took the bus that was laid on to ferry everyone to the other side of the tram works !