I've got a question about sweeteners

food
(Robert C) #21

Given a lack of health problems and if “occasionally” really means not very often, I think it best you use real sugar.

ANY of the artificial sweeteners might have a study come out any time about cancer, destruction of the gut microbiome etc. Unlike the real thing, they have not been in our food supply for thousands of years.

Someone without health issues can just take the risk-less hit of some extra insulin. (Risk-less only if carbs are not a slippery slope for you!).

Another question you should ask yourself is about satiation.

Is a real piece of cheesecake after a nice meal at a restaurant going to “satiate” that dessert desire for a month? If so, great, if not, and you actually probably will want more in the next few days - you might have the slippery slope problem.

But, does a home-made-with-sweet-chemicals piece of cheesecake actually feel like a dessert or just another attempt and fake food to avoid carbs? Is it just sort of sweet with a chemical aftertaste that doesn’t serve as a treat at all? If, on the other hand, it actually tastes great and you don’t mind the risk on the artificial sweetener - it is still an option.

(Bunny) #22

I luv monk fruit because it is actually nutritious besides being a sweetener?

I was sleeping a little bit ago and I never have dreams about keto or anything scientific but it was an odd dream because something was being repeated to me in the background that I know nothing about or have the slightest clue about, sometimes I get messages in my dreams that relate to reality and the future, they are usually correct which scares me to death, anyway this was the message being repeated over and over again:

”…Alpha and beta sugar double bonds…”

Still trying to figure out what the heck that means?

It had something to do with the cause of why people get fat and fat cells which I do like to read about, I’m still waking up and thought I would document this particular dream because it was so odd in that I don’t have dreams about things like this…

Sorry if I went off topic…lol

Excuse me while I go google this to death…lol

What I found to start with:

[1] “…At the top of the chain, an oxygen atom is double-bonded to a carbon atom; collectively, these two atoms are called a carbonyl group. The carbon backbone of the glucose molecule can coil up so that an -OH group near the bottom end of the chain attacks the carbonyl carbon and the glucose molecule forms a ring. …” …More

(Failed) #23

Thank you for the clarification. The info is helpful.:+1:t2::+1:t2:

(Rebecca 🌸 Frankenfluffy) #24

:grinning: Pleasure!

(Bunny) #25

I have to agree with this on so many endless levels or real raw sugar cane or unsulphured molasses, monkfruit being the exception to the rule.

What we want is metabolic flexibility (that is really important?) and the ability to oxidize glucose as well as fatty acids and how the liver and lean skeletal body tissue deal with both?

(Jane) #26

Here is a video where every sweetener on the market was tested by two people. May have to scroll a post or two to find the video.

(Jane) #27

What they didn’t comment on was when one of them experienced a drop in blood glucose from the Allulose it was from an insulin response, which is not good if you used it regularly in coffee and drank it all day. An occasional dessert is not a problem since you will be expecting an insulin response from the other ingredients you are ingesting along with it.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #28

Yes, there is value to using non-sugar sweeteners, if they will help you avoid eating real sugar. And no, they are not really a great idea, just better than the alternative.

Here’s what I know:

  • The U.S. Food & Drug Administration does not allow the sale of any non-sugar sweetener that raises a person’s serum glucose. It doesn’t care, however, whether or not the sweetener in question has an effect on the person’s insulin, so it is never tested for.

  • Anecdotal evidence suggests that every non-sugar sweetener has an effect on somebody’s insulin, but that no such sweetener has an effect on everyone’s insulin, so you will have to experiment with various sweeteners to see whether any of them affect your insulin level, or not.

  • Given that there is no home insulin meter (the lab test involves a radioactive assay), the effect on your insulin, if any, has to be inferred from the pattern of your glucose levels after ingestion. Search for threads on these forums for further information.

  • I have only ever heard of one sweetener that was artificially derived from a non-plant source (one of the cyclamates, I believe). All the rest occur in nature, a couple even being made in our bodies.

  • The sugar industry tried at one point to claim that certain artificial sweeteners caused cancer, as a way of eliminating them as competitors. As far as I know, the “science” behind that assertion was bogus, and more-reliable research suggests that the claim was fraudulent.

  • The feelings around aspartame run so high, both pro and con, that I can’t tell whether aspartame is the Devil’s worst plot against fallen humanity or the greatest boon ever to befall the human race. And the research I’ve seen doesn’t appear really trustworthy in either direction.

  • Not all non-sugar sweeteners are calorie-free. The sugar alcohols in particular contain calories that should be included in your carb count. (Search on the forums for the details of this; it’s complicated.)

  • I have encountered brands of sweeteners that actually blend the sweetener with actual sugar, and the front of the package will actually claim that the product is free of calories. :scream: You have to read the list of ingredients carefully to be sure that you know what the product contains. Truvia is one of the brands that does this; there will be six different versions of stevia blended with something, right next to each other on the shelf, and only the fine print tells you what is actually in each blend.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #29

I’ve read about the lowering BG effect of allulose. It was touted as a positive effect. Are you sure the lowering of BG is insulin related, could it be through another biological mechanism? :cowboy_hat_face:

(Failed) #30

@David_Stilley

I found this
https://hypoglycemia.org/2019/07/11/allulose/

Excerpt1
This study shows results that indicate “dietary supplementation of D-allulose especially influences postprandial hyperglycemia and obesity-related hepatic steatosis, without exercise therapy or dietary restriction. Therefore, D-allulose may be useful as a supplement for preventing and improving obesity and obesity-related disorders.”

d-Allulose enhances postprandial fat oxidation in healthy humans.

Link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28935140

Excerpt 2
“Although the sample sizes have been very small in studies conducted on humansallulose appears to lower blood glucose and insulin levels, which may be promising to those with diabetes,” says Erin Palinski-Wade, RD, CDE, author of 2-Day Diabetes Diet: Diet Just 2 Days a Week and Dodge Type 2 Diabetes . “Animal studies also suggest it may have a positive impact on body composition, helping to reduce visceral ‘belly fat.’ ”

In fact, a 2017 study published in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Study found that rats who drank water with a syrup containing allulose and other rare sugars for 10 weeks gained less weight, had less abdominal fat, and had lower blood glucose and insulin levels than rats who were given water mixed with high-fructose corn syrup.

#31

Unless it’s causing a problem you don’t have to be afraid of every artificial sweetener. Are some actually pretty terrible for you (like ace-k), sure. But that’s not a reason to avoid them all. Also, many people like to use the term “spike” very loosely.

(Jane) #32

I don’t know what else would lower blood glucose from baseline 30 min after consuming the sweetener on an empty stomach.

If your goal is lower blood glucose then allulose is good. If weight loss then I would reserve it for occasional desserts, not daily use to be on the safe side. Like I said - in a dessert it doesn’t matter since you will have an insulin response anyway. I plan to use it for caramels and some other holiday treats.

(jacqueline dietrichson) #33

Good response (you’re actually about the one who really addressed my questions – although others have been kind enough to provide some interesting answers on sweeteners.) Thanks for your time.

(jacqueline dietrichson) #34

I haven’t tried monkfruit yet-- that was on my list of experimental ingredients to check out eventually. But yes we want our bodies to be flexible to process everything! Thx

(jacqueline dietrichson) #35

Yes - this is what I was wondering about. Weight loss (and eventually maintenance) is my main goal. But occasionally I do want something–maybe it’s just to be social and not the weirdo always saying, “no thanks I’ll just have water …” Because I cook & bake a lot for family and celebrations during the holidays – if the body responses are the same to sugar vs a keto sweetener – then why bake twice as much? :slight_smile: (A treat for them and a treat for me!) Life has taught me that I cannot indulge in the sweet things often even the keto sweeteners --early in my keto journey I thought I could make “keto desserts” as a substitute, but discovered they slowed or halted my weight loss. Thanks for your input.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #36

This article links to a low-powered study (N = 13) with an effect that may be statistically significant (if one considers a p-value under 0.05 to be significant in the first place), but does not appear to be clinically significant. I don’t happen to share the Hypoglycemia Foundation’s enthusiasm for this study. It is the same study that your second link points to, by the way.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #37

As I tried to point out in my earlier post, the effects really aren’t the same. I notice, however, that I forgot to mention that table sugar—sucrose—is composed of a molecule of glucose bonded to a molecule of fructose, and each of theses molecules has its effect:

  • The glucose moiety raises insulin, which is the very thing we don’t want to do, whether our reason for eating ketogenically is to restore our metabolic health, or to lose weight.

  • The fructose moiety has no effect on insulin, but it does have the same long-term toxic effects on the liver as ethyl alcohol—not to mention the same effects on the brain’s reward center (the nucleus accumbens), with the consequent risk of addiction. The only way in which fructose differs from ethanol is in the short-term toxic effect (though I have had sugar highs that were just as debilitating, in their own way, as getting drunk).

Non-sugar sweeteners do not have the same effect on everyone. From the anecdotal data I have seen on these forums, no non-sugar sweetener elevates everyone’s insulin, and no one has an insulin response to all non-sugar sweeteners. So there is sure to be a non-sugar sweetener that you can safely use, thus bypassing both the insulin response of glucose and the liver toxicity of fructose.

As for baking the same dishes twice, why would that be necessary? If you get the proportion of non-sugar sweetener right, no one will ever know that your baked goods are sugar-free, unless you tell them. But do use a recipe formulated for a particular non-sugar sweetener, because the recipe needs to be properly calibrated to the power of the sweetening agent. Also, sometimes sugar is used for purposes other than sweetening, in which case it must be replaced by one of the correct non-sugar sweeteners, or the recipe won’t succeed.

(Failed) #38

Tried Allulose today for the first time. My BG didn’t go up much, but my ketones went down. The lower ketones are not normal for me. They are usually above 2, sometimes 3.

Here’s my n=1 on only one usage of allulose

888845A8-D7F4-4AA5-9443-0AA7264BDFC5
888845A8-D7F4-4AA5-9443-0AA7264BDFC5.jpeg2666×685 199 KB

#39

There are people who notice the differences (and especially the lack of flour if the original has it) but indeed, most people are fine with sweeteners in general. Still, some people and some sweeteners don’t mix well. Probably every sweetener has its haters who feel some very strong and nasty taste. Like almost nothing can mask the insanely horrible taste of just a tiny bit of stevia in my case. My SO feel a drastically reduced sweetness so stevia can’t work for him either, not alone, not mixed with other sweeteners.
It’s tricky but I use that approach myself (I can’t bake with sugar), I bake some sweeter than usual cake and hope for the best. My family responds well. But not everyone would.

(Failed) #40

So, I waited 4 hours, ate the exact same allulose sweetened yogurt, then tested BG & ketones 90 mins later.
My BG was 101 / 5.6 and my ketones are 1.0.

Based on this, I don’t think I will be using this sweetener. It isn’t reslly raising my BG but since it’s lowering my ketones, I think it may be causing an insulin release.