Is this what Brown Fat activation feels like?

bat
(Mg ) #33

Good stuff

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #34

This is an interesting study (citation #62 from the Nutrition & Metabolism link:

Abstract

Increased gluconeogenesis (GNG) has been suggested to contribute to protein-induced satiety via modulation of glucose homoeostasis… There was no correlation between appetite ratings and GNG. Glucose concentration was lower … and β-hydroxybutyrate concentration was higher … after the high-protein compared with the normal-protein diet. In conclusion, after a high-protein diet, GNG was increased and appetite was lower compared with a normal-protein diet; however, these were unrelated to each other. An increased concentration of β-hydroxybutyrate may have contributed to appetite suppression on the high-protein diet.

Maybe I’m missing something or over simplifying, but to me it seems that higher protein stimulates ketogenesis and the increase in β-hydroxybutyrate decreases appetite because it provides an alternate fuel.

#35

1g, 1g, 2g of turmeric this far. No effect this far but my “golden milk” (I call it like that but it’s even farther from the original recipes. I barely put any ginger into it, I probably will try it without) is really tasty :slight_smile: I stopped having coffee with egg, it’s good as I drink too much coffee and should just stop. So I have that.
I will up my game later. I wonder how much turmeric I am able to eat easily. 10g is surely comfortably doable (even using only my golden milk but I have other ideas) and that shouldn’t cause any problem either. It’s just for a short term experiment.

Protein and satiation… Once I raised my protein intake… I massively overate on that day. It’s hard to be me. I need enough protein for satiation (2g/kg for lean bodyweight should do, sometimes even a bit less but I never can stay below 1.5, I just get hungry and eat more. I go beyond 3 very often as I still tend to eat more than once a day and then that happens now and then) but adding more changes little, it seems. Maybe I need experiments with leaner protein. I had a single low-fat keto day once and I was satiated but it was highly exceptional.

But in the experiment the normal protein diet was high-carb… Just taking out the carbs would make me way more satiated (take some fat and protein too if you like, just take away almost all carbs, it will happen).

#36

At first I thought it might have been because I was consuming too much protein.

But it that were the case, I thought that the process of converting any excess protein into energy would get me hotter (check), but that I would also smell ammonia in urine as the body tries to get rid of the nitrogen that it isn’t using as a result of using protein for energy.

#37

I decided to have a cheat weekend with my wife last weekend and decided to go on a 48 hour extended fast, for balance.

Usually after 20 hours my hands and feet start feeling colder. I had a decaf with a little turmeric and that sensation went away.

Even today, I was 36+ hours into a fast, added a little turmeric to my coffee, and I started to get warmer. I just came in from a walk, (2C outside but windy), and didn’t have a problem coping with the cold.

(Allie) #38

I never have done :woman_shrugging:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #39

This morning (Mar17) I did not add turmeric to my morning coffee mix. A couple of reasons. First, aside from that afternoon hot flush I mentioned above, I have not experienced anything that I can attribute to consuming 2 grams of turmeric daily in my coffee. Second, I got tired of the mess turmeric makes of my coffee. Even soaking overnight in hot fat does not dissolve it. The grit just suspends itself in the hot liquid. So no more turmeric in coffee for me!

That does not mean I don’t intend to continue the turmeric experiment. Just need to come up with a new delivery system. I will advise when I do so.

As for BAT. I have been warm every day since I upped my daily protein. Not ‘hot flush’ warm, just warm. I spend most of my sleeping time with the covers thrown off. I find the cool/cold air in the morning very invigorating.

I have also only occasionally, like maybe 1-2 days per week hit my calorie target, but generally hit the low end of the range. Although, on many days I even miss the low end of the range. Mostly because I’m not very hungry. For me, not feeling cold, not feeling weak, not feeling any more tired than usual - and generally eating less than before - I expect to start losing weight. So I’ll start weighing myself again tomorrow. Too late to start today since I’ve already consumed a liter of coffee!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #40

I think you have to overeat protein by a huge amount to generate an ammonia odor. It’s not going to happen from simply ‘excess protein’. Given that our ancestors likely hit the jackpot once in a while and had the opportunity to gorge on fat and protein for a few days, it seems logical that having the capacity to retain ‘excess protein’ would be survival enhancing. Only a toxic level would trigger a purge. I don’t recall where now, but a couple weeks ago someone noted the scent of ammonia in his urine and the advice given my multiple posters was simply back off protein until to odor stopped.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #41

I believe Richard calculated that point to be around 3.0 g/kg lean body mass.

(Allie) #42

I make my own capsules and take them every morning.
Easy to do with a basic capsule maker.

#43

Second day using 2g turmeric instead of 1.
No effect but my golden milk (I keep calling it like that, nevermind it gets more and more different from the recipes. I kept the 3 spices and it’s liquid!) is tasty and I have no problem with it. The turmeric tend to collect in the bottom in a small amount but I just add a bit more water when it’s little and drink it quickly.
I didn’t put it into my eggs yet but I will. I won’t ruin my chicken soup or meats for sure. It suits eggs though. So… 4g turmeric from now on? I do Zornfast but probably will eat every day (once if I can do it, it’s super hard on carnivore-ish where I get satiated with a smallish meal for long but not for a whole day) so I keep the experiment. I have so, so much turmeric, at least I use it up. It’s nice tasting anyway, that’s why I bought a big amount in the first place, we just rarely use it in dishes like that (we do use curry powder).

#44

Ah! Gotcha. I thought that excess protein that’s used as energy would be excreted and that I would be able to smell it.

Many years ago, I did a high protein, low fat, low carb diet, I was eating mainly chicken, tuna, eggs, etc. I was able to smell ammonia in my urine, and I was going to the bathroom at a rate that was a little embarrassing in an office environment… but I lost 50 lbs that time, so I considered it worth it.

Thanks for the calculation. I am close to that range, about 2.5g/kg of LBM. But I do weight lift, so I am creating a need for protein.

Did Richard post that in an article or mention it in a podcast? I don’t recall hearing/reading it.

#45

It’s probably individual to some extent as nearly everything…
2.5g/kg is about my average, I regularly go over 3g/kg protein and can’t go significantly below 2. I definitely don’t need particularly much as my activity is mild lately. And my lean bodyweight isn’t much, I don’t know if that matters.
I never had problems with this high protein (it’s normal to me as I can’t go lower and it feels natural but I know I don’t need near this much. I try to eat as little protein as I comfortably can and that’s 2-2.5g/kg), no bad odor or anything. But I think I wrote that before.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #46

He’s discussed it a number of times on these forums. In this post, for example.

#47

Thanks for digging it up. I joined the forum a long time after Richard and Carl stopped posting as often so I never came across it.

Richard said that the max is:
“3.3g/kg LBM for most people (and lower for some unlucky people)”.

But as you said, keep it to 3g max just to be safe.

Thanks!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #48

I’ve come up with an alternative delivery system for turmeric:

@Shortstuff If I resort to capsule supplements, I think I would get the curcumin capsules rather than turmeric.

(Keith) #49

Interesting…! I don’t measure my protein intake, but… I feel I’ve lost more weight when I “overindulged” on protein and cut back on the fat intake, so that makes sense!

#50

It makes perfect sense to me…
Sadly, I can’t do this. Maybe if I really go crazy with leaner protein…? But I doubt I can lower my fat intake, it’s insanely stubborn according to my experiences. But maybe I can do this now, it would be an interesting experiment and useful for blood plasma donating with a lowish-fat day before (IDK if I mentioned that here, possible).

If I write here again, I mention I dropped my turmeric experiment. Maybe I will do it again for a few days with way more turmeric when I will fancy golden milk again, I had enough of it for now.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #51

Experienced another ‘hot flush’ at work today. It was warm and others felt that as well. But I was ‘smokin’! My coworkers felt warm but not uncomfortably so. I had my forehead temp read again about 2 hours into it and I was 0.6°C higher than when I started the shift (35.7°C / 36.3°C).

I’ve been eating my beef patty with Nando’s Peri Peri sauce and turmeric for a couple days. That combines curcumin (pretty small amount in a couple of grams!) plus some capsaicin from the Peri Peri sauce (no idea how much).

#52

It might be worthwhile checking the temperature of these areas of the body when you’re feeling the BAT affect:

These seem to be the areas where BAT accumulates in humans.

When I feel very hot it’s usually just over the breasts as depicted here. I’m curious if the thermometer that you have at work would register a temperature increase in that area.