Is it unhealthy to eat Keto when stress=no ketosis for weeks on end?

#1

I have a question that I have not seen addressed anywhere. Basically, I have been super stressed for weeks and the high stress has kicked me out of ketosis almost continuously for two months. When my body refuses to go into ketosis, is it healthy to eat all this fat? Obviously, the high cortisol is keeping my insulin high, so I wonder if it’s better to eat more carbs in this situation? If I can’t burn fat, what is all the fat I’m eating doing to my body?

Background: I have been keto for a year and half, with great success. Mental health, energy, perimenopause symptoms, weight: all have been better on keto. I track my ketones with a blood ketone meter. This year, some very stressful events have all occurred at the same time and I’ve done everything I can to manage the stress (meditation, yoga, exercise, sleep, deep breathing, supplements) and nothing seems to help. I can feel the stress!

As soon as the stress kicked in, my ketones have been hovering around 0.1 to 0.2 on my ketone meter. This has been going on for two months now. I have tracked my diet and been eating under 20 grams of carbs almost every day. I have fasted for forty hours and my ketones were even lower (I decided fasting was probably too much of a stress for me now). Basically, the more stress I feel, the lower my ketones are.

I did go on a carb binge for several days, just to see what would happen, and I felt bloated, gained almost 5 pounds (which I lost in a day when I went back to keto eating, so probably all water weight), but I did have a little more energy.

I’m not looking for ways to manage the stress in this thread. What I am concerned about is this: If I eat Keto over the longer term, but my body is not able to reach ketosis, is this unhealthy? Am I using my muscle to make carbs? What is all that fat I am eating doing to my body when I can’t burn it?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

If you consistently eat sub-20 grams of carbs per day, you are burning fat. Otherwise you would be unconscious. Your liver is producing just as much glucose as you need via gluconeogenesis. You do not need to eat carbs to get it! Your blood test measures only β-hydroxybutyrate, which is the storage form of acetoacetate. There are many reasons β-hydroxybutyrate could be consistently low. One of which is that your metabolism is utilizing fatty acids directly rather than convert them into acetoacetate. Another of which is that your metabolism is utilizing the acetoacetate more efficiently as it’s synthesized, so less gets converted to β-hydroxybutyrate. Both of these possibilities are indications of fat adaptation. Since you have been doing keto for a year, it is likely you are experiencing both. Don’t add to your overall stress by stressing over ketones. Just deal with the real stress in your life, stay with the program.

(Bob M) #3

My ketones are always low unless I fast multiple days. Try testing at night too if you haven’t.

#4

Thank you for the link to the article! Very informative.

I guess the issue is that during this high stress/low ketone time I’m not seeing any benefit from eating Keto. Depression & Anxiety is high, energy is VERY low, perimenopause issues are going crazy. I’m having trouble finding words (lifelong issue that is way better in Ketosis). I’m even super sore from limited weight-lifting (so it seems inflammation might be high). The only benefit I’m seeing is that I’m not holding extra water weight :wink:

So, do I just Keep Calm and Keto on, knowing that at least I’m not bloated? I guess I just assume that I’m burning the fat that I’m eating, but it’s not giving me the benefits of Keto?

#5

I’ll test later this afternoon…maybe it will be better! Thanks for the advice!

(Bob M) #6

Mine are always higher at night, lower in the morning. Blood sugar is the opposite.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #7

I am eating keto, but not to lose weight. My body burns/uses the fat I eat for fuel, and I still get benefits of Keto. There are many, many benefits, and not all of them are weight-loss. I think that keeping up with eating keto is still beneficial to you, as you pointed out with the weight gain when you ate more carbs.

For the past few weeks my ketones have been low, but I’ve been evaluating what I’ve eating…and I’ve added in some MCT oil. I’ve started to see some better results.

This stress will pass.

#8

Read the article more in-depth and one point she makes is that insulin must be kept low in order to burn fats. Everything I’ve read said high cortisol keeps insulin levels high. So, I guess that’s my worry. If I have high insulin, I can’t be burning fat.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

Again, I emphasize if you were not burning fat you would be unconscious. Sub-20 grams of carbs per day are not sufficient to sustain life. You don’t report that your muscles are wasting away and protein is the only alternative to fat when carbs are not. You must be burning fat. Maybe, if you have high cortisol and if it’s causing elevated insulin (have you had any tests done to confirm?), you’re not burning fat as efficiently as you could otherwise. If not fat, both plate and your own, what do you think is keeping you alive?

(Full Metal KETO AF) #10

This is the opposite of what most people experience. :cowboy_hat_face:

#11

Yes, I’d add MCT oil when I need my brain to function better cognitively and/or emotionally. It should boost the ketones into a more range that will help your symptoms. Coconut oil and butter or cream added to your diet will help some too.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #12

I’ve been tracking BrAce with my Ketonix for nearly 3 months. I find that consistently BrAce is highest late at night when I go to bed and first thing in the morning when I awaken. It then drops during the day until early evening when it starts going up again. This is completely reverse of what I expected to see. I expected to see BrAce rise during the day as I engage in activities, my job for example requires me to stand and walk for most of the shift, then fall during the night when I’m asleep. But it’s just the opposite! Curious.

(Bob M) #13

I doubt that. If you have the morning effect (blood sugar is higher in the morning), you’ll get the same results.

(Bob M) #14

I also have a ketonix, but only use it during the day at work. My values for that aren’t as consistent as are blood ketones. They are more affected by exercise, for instance.

#15

Thanks Michael. You are right, something is keeping me alive :wink: I was more worried about gluconeogensis as I am having trouble building maintaining muscle (but I’m also at that “age” where it’s difficult to build). So, I’m going to KCKO until these stressful situations resolve themselves. I must be burning fat since I’m not completely wasting away.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

Good idea. :relaxed:

(Karim Wassef) #17

It’s an interesting question…

I have to say that I don’t know the answer.

Stress drives cortisol and cortisol drives an elevated blood glucose via gluconeogenesis. This causes lean mass catabolism instead of ketosis. It’s not insulin… it’s cortisol driven GNG.

So the question is what happens if you eat low carb high fat in this state.

The lack of ketones does not mean that you’re not burning fat. It means that you’re not driving so much fat oxidation that ketones are generated. You could be just oxidizing enough fat to support your needs in addition to the glucose via GNG.

Fat gets metabolized in multiple steps. First the glycerol backbone is stripped out to make some glucose (one path of GNG), then the fatty acids are oxidized, and then (with an abundance of fat oxidation), the liver makes ketones.

So… the stress driven cortisol has two negatives: First, it converts lean mass or protein (and a couple of other things like lactate and fat glycerol) into glucose. Second - This means that there is less demand for fat as an energy source.

So… I don’t know if it’s good. I do suspect that eating carbs and spiking insulin is worse. It’s like giving the cortisol a boost of insulin to cause even more damage.

But it may be that eating more protein could reduce the lean mass catabolism. So instead of eating carbs, keep them low but shift the fat/protein macro balance a little more towards protein. This way, the GNG could use dietary protein instead of your own lean mass.

I don’t have the data to answer your question properly. But if I had to make a bet, I’d bet on keto and just allow yourself more protein to deal with the GNG cortisol.

(Bunny) #18

Question may be as to why would you want your ketones any higher than that?

Mother Nature does not want us in a constant state of high ketosis (that you can see with a blood meter) or too many ketones floating around in your blood stream that you can see, because that is not good, your body should be using them and you should not be seeing massive amounts in your blood long-term, other than when your fasting just like you would not want to see massive levels of sugar in your blood? Just because your seeing high ketones does not mean your always burning body fat because of turn over rate[1].

Here is another way to think about it:

When the liver receives insulin, it stops the liver from making endogenous glucose and when you eat any kind of carbohydrates (sugar/glucose), you are preventing ketosis from occurring, then when you eat too much carbohydrate (sugar/glucose), your overloading your body with carbohydrates (sugar/glucose) because you have no idea (there is no instruction manual for the human body?) how much to really eat when your dealing with highly concentrated carbohydrates that have been processed to make it potent that is why I’m a stickler about portion size no matter what I’m eating (i.e. a carb, fat or a protein) because insulin can’t do anything with what is left over after storing that extra exogenous sugar as glycogen to partially power the brain with ketones and glycogen back to glucose so it turns that extra sugar into fat, in other words when you have too much body fat it stores that extra exogenous sugar as glycogen equally in muscle, liver and adipose tissue and then too fat rather than oxidizing the exogenous sugars when you have less body fat; so when you look at it from that angle; which is “natural” and “un-natural” and truly a “fad diet?”

Footnotes:

[1] Is dietary fat burned before stored fat on a ketogenic diet? By Dr. Stephen Phinney and the Virta Team “…Certain fats, like medium-chain triglycerides found in coconut or MCT oil cannot be stored in body fat, so whatever is consumed must be promptly burned for energy. This means that if you’re adding these fats on top of your dietary fat consumption for satiety, this type of fat takes priority. For regular dietary fats, once they are digested, they enter the circulation and participate in what is called ‘fatty acid turnover.’ Whether fed or fasted, the body is always releasing, burning, and storing fat. When insulin is high, storage predominates, but turnover continues. When insulin is low, release and oxidation predominate. If you eat fat along with a lot of carbohydrates, it is prone to be stored. When fat is consumed in the context of a well formulated ketogenic diet, it — along with fat released from adipose stores — is prone to be burned. But once digested and absorbed, dietary fat and stored fat enter the ‘turnover pool’ and are in a constant state of mixing. …” …More

[2] Stress: “…Cortisol is released from the adrenal cortex and allows the body to continue to stay on high alert. Cortisol acts on the liver, muscle, adipose tissue, and the pancreas. In the liver, high cortisol levels increase gluconeogenesis and decrease glycogen synthesis. …More

#19

Barbina, last week’s Robb Wolf podcast had a similar question (high stress- and in this case lots of work activity as well - messing with ketosis for someone who had had great results on keto) and his first answer was salt, much more salt. Second suggestion if that didn’t do the trick was to move (temporarily) to a slightly higher carb/lower fat WOE.

#20

Biology matters very much, and midlife females are their own category in some specific ways - including higher production of the stress hormone cortisol combined with midlife hormonal changes and psychological change.

In general, high stress definitely necessitates strong electrolytic support - plenty of salt ( I also add lemon juice to a glass of drinking water each day, which aids the electrolytic powers).

And more specifically, midlife women undergoing hormonal change have a natural higher cortisol tendency/level for a few years, (and possibly just a healthy, much lower tolerance for bullsh**). Lke Madeleine mentioned, there is a thing about adding more carbs (whole food carbs or RS). Midlife women undergoing The Change who are 100% fat-adapted should esp NOT stay at the “Induction” level of carbs (20g or less), apparently slightly higher carbs help the fat-adapted female thyroid in general past age 35.

Many of today’s females in industrial culture deal with compound stress that our stone age nervous systems aren’t equipped for, and I find it helpful to practice a lot self-compassion regardless of how much additional self-care or options I have. Be very kind to yourself.

I second the Coconut Oil suggestion!!! I take at least a tablespoon most mornings, and it enormously helps my mental and emotional coping skills (and boosts Brain-derived Neurotrophic Factor, BDNF) - give it a few days for the MCT sequences to build, and you should start to notice a mental boost.

I’d also recommend exploring adaptogenic herbs. Ginger is a major one, and one of the most economical. The best way I’ve found to get a steady dose is through taking the dry capsules, though I eat it in food at least once a week. Because of Ginger’s help, I’ve successfully continued recomposition despite being a 53 y.o. female almost in post-menopause. I’ve not “lost weight” - but have lost fat, and apparently restored bone density/muscle mass.

Last but not least: consider working with “Resistant Starch”. There are 4 kinds, and different ways to properly eat it. I use chilled/leftover white basmati rice fried (has to be fried, in order to seal the starch so it doesn’t dissolve in the stomach and makes it to the large intestine) in butter or ghee. Just 2-3 tblsp of that with a meal noticeably boosts my mental state the next day - and seems more effective when after having done a daily intake for a few days straight, then implementing randomness - ie, every few days. RS dovetails nicely with the whole midlife female additional carbs thing. Low-carb nutritionist Louise Gittelman PhD, in her book for midlife females called Radical Metabolism, also talks about the benefits of a certain amount of daily fruit for critical antioxidants and microbiome happiness for midlife females.

:purple_heart:

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