Is glycogen added when eating fruits?

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #1

I am quite close to my “ideal” weight, and my doctor told me to start eating fruits and dairy.

First I tried with dairy, and nothing strange happened. Then, I have been adding some fruit, and I see I have plateau-ed.

I do not think the reason is the calories added by the fruit, since my fruit portion has less than 100 calories, and my doctor tells me that I am eating with about 700 or even 800 calories deficit.

Then, I have thought: could it be the carbs and sugars of the fruit are creating glycogen, which is stored? I recall that during the first days of keto, one loses lots of weight, since glycogen has about 4 parts of water per each part of carbs added, so one loses mostly water. Could it be that now the opposite effect (adding glycogen, by adding 4 parts of water) is happening?

I guess it would be strange that my body stores glycogen when I am still at a calorie deficit, but maybe this is the explanation for the plateau?

Please, do not comment on “you are not a true keto-er” or similar to this. I try to do my best for my health, and keto is an integral part of it.

(Ken) #2

To add glycogen you have to eat carbs in excess of what you burn. By eating fruit you’re secreting more insulin, which is possibly causing your plateau. You’ve moved into Maintenance, drop the fruit, or eat it only occasionally in order to shift back into Lipolysis and continue losing fat.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #3

Fruits are typically high in sugar (sucrose). Most of them are also high in fibre, which slows down the absorption rate, making it easier for the body to handle the sucrose. A molecule of sucrose is a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose molecule. The bond is cleaved in the digestive tract and then the glucose and fructose are metabolised separately.

As long as the glucose isn’t absorbed in one large bolus, your insulin shouldn’t rise too high. Fructose is metabolised in the liver, by the same metabolic pathway that handles ethyl alcohol. The rate at which the liver can deal with the fructose is quite limited—here is where the fibre has an important role to play, since exceeding the liver’s capacity to deal with fructose leads, over time, to fatty liver, steatohepatitis, and eventually cirrhosis.

So as long as you stick to high-fibre fruits (such as berries and certain nuts) and don’t overeat them, you should be fine.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #4

I don’t get it, why change something that isn’t broken. You’re almost there. I’m going to assume that your doctor isn’t specifying how much and what kind of fruit or dairy. If you don’t mind leaving keto behind I guess fruits are a way to go. Personally I don’t consider most fruit natural food, with all the human hybridization, especially for year round consumption out of season. I guess we all have different ideas about what “healthy” is. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #5

No, I am not almost there. This is just the beginning of a journey that will last (I hope!) many decades.

In fact, my doctor had told me to start eating dairy and fruits in the previous visit. I did not do it, since I wanted to lose a few more kilos. Now, when I told her I had not eaten dairy or fruits, she was “angry”.

I am not a keto supporter per se. I just like the keto spirit. I know for sure I will not eat wheat for the rest of my life. Life has taught me enough lessons about that.

But I am not so sure about fruits or legumes. First, I have never had the same reaction with fruits or legumes (in comparison to wheat). Second, in my culture (European Mediterranean) fruits have always been present. I know that for centuries, my ancestors were eating figs and oranges, and other fruits. Maybe now they have a bit more sugar than before. But they continue being figs and oranges!

Also, they were eating legumes.

Of course, they also ate bread. But it was for sure whole wheat bread. And they were doing a lot of physical exercise. And wheat is not good for me!

I want to do some kind of “elimination” process. I want to see if I can accept some degree of fruits and legumes.

The recommendation to try mostly berries is a good one. I like them, and they have a lot of fiber and litter sugars. I want to eat pomegranates, apples or bananas when it is the season.

When our genes were defined (before the Neolithic, mostly), I am pretty sure people were sometimes “keto”, and sometimes “out of keto”. I do not know the proportion of time. But I am pretty sure that “alternating” keto and non-keto cannot be too bad. I would say that forcing oneself always to the same (either keto, SAD or anything else) cannot be too good, in any circumstance.

Also, portion size clearly matters. This is something I am learning about quite clearly.

Also, there are personal relationships. My mother made some Christmas sweets. My wife is doing the same for New Year’s Eve. Birthday cake is important for my son and my wife. I want to be part of all that. Of course, I do not want that this is the excuse to my drug-addict-for-wheat-and-sugar brain to start eating sugars on a recurring basis. I want to be aware of all that. And maybe do some kind of “purifying” fasting after that.

Today I have gained 700g after yesterday, which had a Christmas dinner. In fact, I was very conservative (I ate like 10g of my mom’s cake). And the food was a seafood soup and some shrimps, so everything “keto”. So, I see the reaction in my body to sugars is quite strong.

Today there is a Christmas lunch. I want to participate in it. I will take the consequences of it.

I am thinking in doing some fasting between tomorrow evening and New Year’s Eve. It would be the first fasting since I started keto. I have the minerals and the vitamins. And I think I have the right mind and attitude.

Finally, a phrase I love is “perfection is the enemy of the good job”.

(Ken) #6

You have to understand the Science. What you’re talking about as far as limited fruits and other carbs is really applicable to either Maintenance or limited intake for metabolic purposes. Getting to that point can take quite a while, even years. I’m afraid few normal doctors understand the specific biochemistry.

Carb intake at lipolytic (keto) levels is necessary for both fat loss as well as alleviation of detrimental effects of a Carb based nutritional pattern. Significant Carb intake during that period will only slow things down. Your doctor clearly does not understand this and is merely pushing Ancel Keys Dogma. Your nutrition needs to be fat based and very low Carb. If you choose to eat some say, on the Weekends it would be fine, but if you start adding them into your daily pattern it will be counterproductive and just slow things down.

Once in Maintenance things are different. You can eat more carbs, as long as your pattern does not fill up you liver glycogen, which starts the detrimental readaptation process all over again. IMO the best way to do that is when you eat carbs, drop them down to keto levels for a day or so afterwards to allow glycogen levels to drop.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #7

I am close to maintenance (maybe I have to lose 2kg), and my doctor is knowledgeable about keto (in fact, this is the reason I chose her).

But I also understand her: she wants that I eat, in maintenance, as varied as possible. She already told me, with the weight loss I had, that I could not eat sugars or wheat “never ever”. But she wants I eat fruits and maybe legumes. There will be a trial and error there.

Yesterday, I had a good lunch, with three cannelloni (it is typical in Catalonia), which includes some wheat pasta. But then, I started a fast (so, I did not have dinner), and this morning, I had lost 1.1kg. In fact, today with 75.1kg I am at my lowest weight (and after two days of eating celebrations!).

I will continue my fast, probably for 72 or 84 hours, breaking the fast about 2 days before New Year’s Eve, when we have another family dinner.

So far, so good.

#8

Looks like your body has told you something. Pull it back out and see if weight loss resumes after a week or so. If it does leave out the fruits until you hit your goal weight. Everybody’s body is different, we gotta tailor what we do to our specific needs. But a 700/800 calorie deficit is pretty large, don’t hold that too long or you’ll slow your BMR and then life sucks trying to fix it. (Been there).

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #9

I think this is the reason my doctor told me to introduce fruits and legumes, to avoid slowing my BMR.

Let us see if with fasting I can get to my ideal weight, and then I jump into maintenance. Eating mostly berries can be a good intermediate point.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #10

Today I am at 73.2kg, so I have lost one kg, and in less than 72 hours I have lost 3kg (!!!).

So far, no hunger. When I had a minimum of hunger, I drank coffee, and in 30 seconds, the hunger disappeared completely.

I feel relatively weak, but my head is clear.

My plan is to stay in fasting for 4 days (96 hours), but maybe I will break the fast earlier. We will see.