Is anyone doing Keto Mediterranean?


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #41

Now, the carnivores I’ve read who say they eat that amount of meat say it’s because that’s what it takes to satisfy them, not that that’s what everyone should eat. So, I’m wondering whether eating two pounds means you are eating more than enough to satisfy your hunger, or whether you are not feeling satisfied by any amount of meat. Or is there some aspect of the situation I’m overlooking?

I’m really hope this comes across as a challenge, because that’s not how I’m intending it. It’s just curiosity. (And of course I have a hypothesis that I am trying to confirm or disprove.) Thanks for being willing to answer questions.


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #42

Amber O’Hearn wonders if feeling a lack of energy means that someone is not getting enough fat. What’s your thought about that?

Interestingly, Amber also says, in the interview I just watched, that she suspects nuts of having enough carbs to trigger an insulin response that triggers hunger, and of course causes us to gain fat. It’s an intriguing idea, but I have no idea how to test it.

I just had a bout of eating my favourite nuts (cashews) and found not only was it easy to eat the entire container, but I also suffered severe digestive problems from which I am still recovering. Won’t do that again! Cashews are the worst, but most nuts have a similar effect, which I didn’t notice until going keto.


(Denise) #43

I was eating a cup of peanuts in the shells a day between a simple lunch and dinner so not much of a fast in there.

Also my fat intake is typical of this day Paul, quite a bit over daily goals. I still eat 1/4 cup walnuts, pieces and halves, and usually one snack of 1/4 almonds. I will look into Amber’s info. I just wanna say “oink” after looking at this but I haven’t gained the weight again, I lost the 2 lbs from too many peanuts :wink: and/or not enough activities/exercise:


#44

Some people gain when overeating, some doesn’t. Experiences say so and it makes sense anyway. Multiple persons on this forum said they gained fat on keto and even on carnivore.
I probably wouldn’t gain but it has little to do with my woe. Of course, I don’t lose either if I am not in a deficit, no surprise there.

2lbs meat isn’t necessary many calories, it depends on the fat content.
It’s not even enough for a meal for me (calorie wise as I never ever ate that much meat in one sitting) if it’s lean and my energy need isn’t much (not like my satiation has much to do with that).
Fatty meat is very different, not like I didn’t go ridiculously easy over 2 lbs with some quite fatty pork… I avoid that now.


#45

You didn’t ask this from me but I know it isn’t true for me at all.
I usually have lowish energy (it seems to be better when I don’t stray far from carnivore but not a huge difference) and I doubt my 120-180, sometimes 200+ (and very rarely way over 300g) grams of fat would be little. It’s actually overeating fat so I can’t expect any fat-loss. But I have a method, I just need to stuck to it somehow. High energy would be way better than losing fat, maybe I should do everything right for it, not just eating… I try but my lifestyle could be better.

Nuts (and peanut, the fatty legume): Hmmm, I wouldn’t say they make me hungry, they just don’t make me satiated. But it’s more than enough to trigger overeating…
Cashews are pretty carby, even much worse than peanuts! They are nice but one very well roasted and salted piece in a blue moon is enough as they are too sweet for me to enjoy it in bigger amounts. Good. (But I go for the peanuts unless they are off-limit. Another good reason for me to stick to carnivore-ish.)


(Stickin' with mammoth) #46

I can tell you that hunger changes on carnivore. You feel it in a different part of your body. I used to get hungry all over–head, chest, mouth, abdomen–and when the growling insinuated itself, I would start mulling over what flavor and texture I was in the mood for. More on that later.

Now, the hunger is one place and one place only: stomach. It’s like an urgent animalistic drive rather than a feeling. You just need to fill that empty space up. Now. With meat. And you can tell when you’ve had enough, there’s no guesswork involved. There’s none of that, “Well, there’s only a few bites left on the plate, I’ll just finish those off…” Nope, done. Put those three bites away in some Tupperware and get back to doing whatever.

Mood and feeling and emotion are no longer players, food is not the solution to those conditions anymore. You can be angry and hungry, happy and hungry, sad and hungry, doesn’t matter. Once you eat the meat, you’re angry, happy, or sad and full, but that’s it. Food is just fuel. You have an empty tank, you fill up the tank. You get back on the road.

This takes a reordering of one’s pleasures and priorities, for certain. We’ve been conditioned for so long via socialization and advertising to regard food as a necessary mood enhancer and an absolutely vital aspect of the enjoyment of life, which then makes it hard to tease apart from mere survival. I think it would be hard to be a hardcore foodie on carnivore. Luckily, I was never one of those.

My experience, anyway.


#47

I have different experiences. My hunger is always somehow… In my center? Probably below my stomach. I never care about my stomach, it’s insignificant how it feels unless I am REALLY hungry (or really, truly full but I don’t do that more than once in a few years but maybe it’s more rare now).
But in English stomach means belly? It’s still so very odd to me, stomach is the organ for me. I actually feel my stomach sometimes, very rarely as it’s pretty silent and not important in my hunger/satiation signs…
So hunger is some central feeling, it doesn’t matter what woe or if I am fat adapted. But it definitely changed when I got fat adapted, even slightly under some circumstances when I got into ketosis while fat adapted… But carnivore was a HUGE change. Even if it’s not the same all the time but I never do it really long term, maybe that’s why… Some days usually bring some changes but I still have days when I need more food and days when I can even have a cute deficit (just because I can’t possibly know my CI or CO, I know them very vaguely sometimes so I can tell such days happen).

The meat stop was super new to me when it first happened as I never had anything like that before. I always could eat more when satiated. I still can but that would be low-key force and I won’t do that without a very good reason. And it’s huge for me as I always, always cleaned my plate on high-carb, probably even on low-carb, I don’t remember keto but probably there too. Carnivore is just special. Putting away my plate with food on it (sometimes little) is actually a thing now. Who would have thought?

But time passed, my body adapted and it has this insane mission to keep itself/me chubby… So it’s not that simple now, I don’t always get a clear stop sign. But it’s still loads better than before.

But add more than very little non-animal carbs and chaos ensues. Not always but often.

I don’t have any urgency when I feel like eating now. I can wait one more hour. Or 3. It’s amazing, it was the opposite before fat adaptation and while the edge and urgency changed after I got fat adapted, it still wasn’t nearly this amazing thing where I can just ignore my hunger for a while. It may even go away, I never had that before (because I always ate but it never went away if I waited 1-2 hours, it progressively got worse).

So carnivore(-ish as I quickly noticed I can afford a little extra and I am unable to do it stricter anyway as I don’t see the point of that sacrifice) is very special and good for me.

But my keto was somewhat carby and meatless so no wonder the change was big… It would be useful to be able to try <20g meaty keto. It’s theoretically possible but tricky for me.

Food is JOY, that’s very, very important (not as important as health but almost. well joy is needed for my health… I could get it without food joy but it makes it easier…). But I am a hedonist so of course. Never will change, I would lose a big part of my personality.
But I appreciate that carnivore helps with way too big focus on food and overeating due to mental things. Food is joy but if we use it to get joy without needing the food, that is problematic and not even healthy, not even hedonistic… Hedonism involves health-consciousness if you ask me, it’s a very important part of it. One day I should read about other people’s opinions about it…

Maybe the type of it matters? I don’t see why it would necessarily be a problem for someone who just loves food, cooking, variety, different textures… If it’s the type who totally must to have all kinds and type of food, yeah that’s a problem. But people can change so much…

I liked reading your experiences, @Aqua_chonk, it’s always interesting to me to get a glance at how it is for others. This almost whole-body hunger was very new to me. It’s always, always my center, below my stomach, sometimes my stomach too, a very localized part.
But I am rarely hungry nowadays. I still was so hungry on keto, I had my soft but annoying hunger after fat adaptation… And being close to carnivore quite often for years changed that as it changed so, so, so many other things, some right away, some eventually. I barely get even my soft hunger (I usually eat when I get tempted or if I get weak and dizzy) and it’s rarely annoying (at least until I eat. eating can make me hungry and I usually need food right away then).

Oh another new thing. I can feel if I want meat now. I didn’t have it before, obviously, I ate almost no meat for decades and it was fine. I don’t miss meat as a joy (it gives joy but I still don’t), I just feel I need it and I do it on my carnivore-ish, what else would I eat? My egg eating has limits and egg doesn’t even have all the nutrients I need.
I have the same for eggs. Not enough eggs or meat in my day? Doesn’t matter if I ate enough, I won’t feel right until I fix it. (I could eventually get satiated with something else but it probably would take too much food and still wouldn’t feel THAT right.) And it’s not missing the joy either, I may be low-key bored of eggs, it may be late and I don’t want eating just chill but I still need it at some level and quickly eating a boiled egg (not my fav) solves it. Maybe my body counts egg consumption too, I wouldn’t be surprised, it counts calories and protein, apparently and it has problems when they go a bit low.

I don’t have this with anything else, not even with my precious sour cream. I miss it when I run out of it but it’s just joy, not a real need. So I can live without it. I badly need both meat and eggs or suffer the consequences. I need them even on my off days and usually not in small amounts. They are the two pillars of my diet.


#48

I just weighed in at 68.8Kgs, 10.83 stone, or 151.67 pound.

Lowest yet. I used to be 100kgs, 220.46 pound, 15.74 stone.

I eat (mainly) walnuts all the time, but I also eat peanuts (salt & vinegar flavour mainly) all the time.
I’ve lost 5 stone, 3rd of my body weight. But I know only have 1 main meal a day, some sour cream with bluberries…and the walnuts are a helpful ‘go to’ compliment.

Everyone will be different of course.


#49

Sorry! Not all the time!

I meant usually, every other day!


#50

Mediterranean eating?

Best cuisine in the world…the diverse region.

Especially the fish, which we sell them (UK/Ireland).


(Denise) #51

I love my walnuts, almonds, and I’m on the peanuts again, but more in proportion, LOL! Quarter cup, I’m back to measuring, sometimes not :wink: I’m burning a lot of calories in the last week. Only one day I didn’t do any type of exercise, and am noticing I need to fuel up a bit more :slight_smile:


#52

Good on you!

Well done!

I think, for me, if I didn’t have access to nuts (almonds, walnuts, or whatever) I’d end up submitting to a worse carb craving.

I don’t know, a craving like sticking on the air fryer for some chips/french fries…or phoning a restaurant delivery service.It temporarily fills the gap between craving and actual hunger, which it isn’t.

I’m not one of these people that cleared out the cupboards of all carbs- they’re all still there and I look at them every day.

They’ll stay there in case anyone needs them. Not for me though, unless there’s a crisis.

No, I’m hoking athe freezer and the ‘about to go off ailses’ for fish and quality meat, cream, berries, and the odd bottle of gin, lol. Oh, and cheddar cheese. :smile:


(Denise) #53

Instead of seeing how many Lays potato chips I can get in my mouth at once, I now see how many Almonds I can sort of drink out of my “jar of”, and that’s my portion :joy:


#54

My big “I don’t care, I eat peanuts!!!” portion is 5g now. My more proper one is half peanut but the right one is zero.
Things changed so much :smiley:

Walnuts are different as I don’t snack on them. It’s either somewhere below 1g when I crack a lot - or 10-15g in a single pancake…

I can eat almost all my off items in small amounts now. Fruits can go higher occasionally.
And of course, I still could eat a lot of nuts or fruits, I just keep myself in check, more or less. Peanuts are not things my body likes in bigger amounts and I dislike not fully nice feeling addictions so I am extra careful with that.
But if something works for someone, why not to enjoy it?


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #55

I love cashews, but just had a bad experience. The tree, the leaves, and the nuts all contain urushiol, which is the compound in poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac that causes the rash most people get from them. Proper processing is supposed to neutralise the urushiol. However, I ate an improperly processed batch a couple of weeks ago, and not only did I experience the usual gastric effect I always get, but I might as well have rubbed poison ivy leaves on my butt. It’s been over a week-and-a-half now, and the itching is still intolerable. :scream:


(Denise) #56

Oh noooooooo, that’s horrible Paul :woozy_face: I googled it and found these home-remedies, maybe help:


#57

I haven’t read through this entire thread but I have the same problem - Gerd from hiatal hernia, as well as a major laparotomy that has caused problems. Top if off with the heavy doses of antibiotics they gave me for the surgery and having to drink Senna tea every day to make things go through. I’m pretty messed up.

My suggestion - I think mediterranean can help a lot, especially fatty fish, but forget the grains. If you need something to put your sardines next to that is carby, try a root vegetable of some kind, or a nice salad with bell pepper and avocado, and maybe some nuts if you can tolerate them. Skip the processed foods because they won’t help.


(Edith) #58

The carnivores’ answer to everything seems to be “eat more meat.” So, I tried eating more meat when I was feeling off during my trial. The only thing eating more meat did for me was make me gain weight. It did not help the issues I was having. I did feel like I was force feeding myself at the two pounds a day quantity.


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #59

That’s definitely not a good idea. The carnivores whose writings say they eat that much also say that that’s the amount their appetite naturally leads them to eat, they don’t eat to any target intake. And Shawn Baker says he eats around 4 lbs./1.82 kg a day, but he’s definitely an outlier. From what I’ve read, it seems that no one should take these things as instructions of what to do, but rather they should find what works best for them.


(Edith) #60

Which is what I did: ate less meat. :laughing:
I also stopped strict carnivore. My body is happier with a bit of vitamin C containing food.