Introduction and questions - Am I underthinking the Keto Lifestyle?

(Doug) #21

Hi Dave. :slightly_smiling_face: Eating once a day works very well for many people. Sometimes there are concerns about getting enough food in total, or enough fat or protein, but those cases seem more sporadic to me than the ones where it’s “great, been doing it for a long time.”

At some point, “eating less” will result in decreasing metabolism for most people. I wish we really knew how long this takes, on average. Studies and experiments show that by 24 weeks or 6 months or so, most people will then have a lower resting energy expenditure. I think it takes a while - some weeks, anyway - for this to occur. Never have seen anything that made me think a day or a handful of days makes a difference.

#22

Thanks, Doug. Appreciate the info. … Like I mentioned to my wife the other day, I told her after trying out the 1 meal, 2 meals, etc. I think I preferred to do the 1 meal, but that I could always just pick something up if I did get hungry at work. I also keep a few things in my fridge at work, like pickles, cheese, etc. But to be honest, I don’t like snacking either, but I will eat a lunch from time to time. … Thanks again

(Brian) #23

That’s quite interesting, Doug. I’ve never thought that it was an instantaneous kind of thing. But I’ve never heard a whole lot about just how fast or slowly the change of BMR ratchets downward as the calories get restricted. Does Dr. Fung talk about that, does anyone know?

(Wendy) #24

I’ve just finished reading How We Get Fat, by Dave Taupe and I don’t think it mentions how long it takes for the body to start cutting down energy use when calories are reduced but I was under the impression it doesn’t take much time.
Mice bred to be fat or that had their ovaries removed, continued to gain the same amount of fat no matter how low their calories were, even when starved to death. Their bodies still had fat on them. Getting fat is a hormonal thing not a caloric one. Keeping the insulin down seems to be the way that fats are released from the fat cells, so if you’re fasting your insulin is lower and so your body can feed itself on your fat stores and your energy needs are met. Unlike reducing total caloric intake.
I would imagine at some point of going with out any food the body does start to restrict energy use but this may have to do with how much fat you have left to burn. Possibly it may also be looking for other nutrients. I know that Megan Ramos has also said it’s good to change things up to keep the body guessing.
I personally eat different meals on different days, allowing hunger to dictate.

(Charlotte) #25

There really isn’t a one-size-fits-all approach to keto. Don’t worry about what you “should” be doing (beyond the basics of keeping net carbs under 20g/day, not overdoing it on the protein and getting the majority of your calories from fat), but instead pay attention to what will be sustainable for you long-term, how you feel, how much energy you have, how your current keto practice is/isn’t supporting any specific goals you may have (such as weight loss), etc.

Personally, I don’t track macros for a few reasons–I know from experience that tracking food triggers some very mentally unhealthy and obsessive tendencies in me, and that I will eventually rebel against its strictness, because yes, tracking does make keto feel like a “diet” to me, whereas intuitive keto eating just feels like a chosen lifestyle (and a delicious one at that) . I did track for a short period of time toward the beginning of eating keto, which was helpful for giving me an overall sense of what day-to-day keto eating would look like for me, but after a few weeks I stopped tracking and have been doing well just tracking carbs in my head, making reasonably educated choices about everything else, and being mindful to avoid overeating or indulging in emotional eating. If I were tracking and super focused on the numbers, I might be losing weight faster, but I’ve been steadily losing at least a half a pound a week (and often more) doing things my way, and that works for me–I’m not terribly concerned with the pace of my weight loss as long as things are continually moving in the right direction.

And as far as the concern about being “lazy” goes, something I heard on a keto podcast that I really liked (I think it was a guest on the Keto for Normies podcast?) was that there is no such thing as lazy keto, because doing keto at all in any form is inherently not lazy–it takes discipline to follow the diet in even its most basic form. The person being interviewed said she preferred calling it “intuitive keto”, and I concur.

So, yeah. If you feel good and it’s working for you, just keep doing what you’re doing. Reading other folks’ strategies and successes can be interesting and helpful, but that doesn’t mean what works for them is the same as what will work for you.

#26

Thank you, Wendy. I believe I’ve read about keeping the body guessing on here before, and thought it sounded like a good idea. But as you say, I have been letting hunger dictate, but think I will try to change it up some from time to time. … Thanks.

This :point_up: … It’s pretty much what I was trying to say, and also trying to avoid. I didn’t want it make it harder than it should be, keeping it simplistic and basic, which I’m glad to learn should be sufficient. And that’s the reason I asked, to make sure there wasn’t required elements. - But just in reading a lot of the post on this forum as I have so far, it seems some folks appear to work themselves up quite a bit, when it comes to the gathering, collecting and analyzing all this data. At least that’s how it appears when I read it. … And that’s something I don’t think I would fun at all. Like you stated, “mentally unhealthy and obsessive tendencies” or simply getting worked up regularly. - Just not my cup of tea.

Thanks

(karen) #27

I think the analyzers fall into a few categories: people who just naturally like numbers and charts, veterans who are revisiting their keto because it doesn’t seem to be working the way they’d hoped anymore, and people just starting out who want to be sure they’ve got everything right - or expect instant miracles and assume they’re doing something wrong because they didn’t lose 5 pounds over the weekend.

As someone else said, the newbie trackers are probably over-represented, the more days (weeks, months, years) of keto you have under your belt the less you think about the day to day unless it stops working. My bottom line: try it at the level of complexity you think will work best for you. If that doesn’t work, start tweaking.

#28

Make sense, and probably just what I’ve been seeing.

I too actually love to crunch numbers, create charts or mapping, but with projects I deal with regularly. But just not with this stuff. - I just want to learn as much as I can, so I will recognize issues or symptoms and the like and at least have some knowledge for any needed corrections that may be required.

Thanks

(charlene clark) #29

Thank you Brian you helped so much!

(Chris W) #30

If it is working for you currently then you are doing it right, until it does not work. And at that point it may become harder to figure out why. I have had to change it up about 3 times, each time I used the info I had.
I started with a food log, and spreadsheet to keep track of everything, this proved useful for nearly emergency visit to my doctor and the discovery of being very low on salt and high on potassium. I walked in to the office with the log for previous weeks down to the meal. I did that from day -3 and did until about 8 weeks in. At that point I was comfortable with my intake and understood what each part of my diet was based on the spread sheet and just did simple math from that point on. On several occasions i was not in ketosis and based on some trial and error I figured out that I was high protein for a number of days. Again having the log and spreadsheet helped but I also used feed back from myself and the pee sticks at that point
Later on I dropped out of ketosis and based on the feed back I got from a breath meter, pee sticks and just plain how I felt I narrowed it down to some sugar free breath mints.

I stopped tracking macros intake about 6 weeks ago to any great extent outside of my total fat, mainly as I can get within a couple grams of my macros daily based on structured intake and wrote memory of what each part of my diet is these days( I like simple). I was really strict for about 3 months(jan to march) in that time frame I preformed, lost and felt the best. I was lazier for a month and half after that, in which time I did not feel as good, loss slowed to a crawl and even stalled. I started to track closer, and for a number of reasons had to increase my intake again I tweaked my intake based on my feedback. I don’t think I could have done it as well with out it, and then about half way through that I stopped tracking macros as close because I was near my target weight and I was expending a lot of energy each day. In the last week or so I have started to return to more normal expenditure and I may start to track again closer just to audit myself. One thing though is that the macros allowed me to understand what I needed and how adjust that on the fly easier.
Do you have to, no, should you, well at this point you are nearing fat adaption hopefully things will keep going without much of hitch. I never used and ap, and it seems to me the people who do have more problems but that may be just like seeing fireman at a fire.

The one thing though I think you may want to make sure is correct is salt, that one will make all the difference in the world.

#31

Thanks, Chris. I actually just finished reading the thread about KetoAide, and think I may give that a try. I haven’t had much in the way of problems, no headaches, no keto-flu that I’m aware of? - But did have calf cramping a couple times in week 2 or 3? Just the left one. … But nothing since, until this morning. Woke about 4:30 am with both lower legs seeming to be tightening up, as if getting ready to cramp up from calf down. So, I may be light in the way some things. Though I have been adding salt back in to meals, since starting Keto. I actually pretty much stopped using salt/pepper many years ago, just because I prefer to taste the food.

Thanks

(Chris W) #32

I think this in most cases depends upon your activity level more than anything else.
Keto flu can hit at anytime, I never experienced it myself but I had other issues that were happening at the normal period of time that does at around 2 weeks in. I actually came down with the real flu at about 3 weeks and the week before I was well out of balance with my salt which did not cause the normal keto flu symptoms. Instead I had a racing heart and was not sleeping more than an 2 hours. Having the paper trail to see what I had done wrong was helpful, when I started keto I did not think it would turn out this way, in the sense that I would feel so go and be on it so long.

I would not get carried away with electrolytes outside of salt, until you have done some math(paying attention to the food labels) or you could end up like me with too much of one(potassium) and not enough of another(salt). Salt is the great balancer and it controls most of the others as well as 100 other things. I rarely take potassium and even then in limited amounts. I only supplement magnesium when I fast more than a 24 hours which is not very often my intake is moderate to decent otherwise. Cramping can be a sign of either being low but I would think about magnesium first if it continues. But more to the point I read the labels and kept track of what ate for so long that I understood that if I fast I may want to ad some in. I was getting way potassium when I first started, as well ate a lot of bananas right before, potassium is fat soluble so as I started to dump water in my fat my doc suspected I lost all my salt and my potassium went high. I started take salt at around 1 teaspoon a day sometimes more and have not had any issues since related. Walking into the doc with 4 pages of food was a great aid to her she stared at it for several minutes and then ordered my test.

I started off more or less on a whim and under informed, within 2 weeks I had the shit scared out of me enough that I started to research this WOE. You may be doing great just at what you are doing, or you may be marginal I would think it does not hurt make it work the best if can for you. I wish back then I had found this forum, as I think a lot of road bumps would have been saved.
KCKO

#33

As far as activity goes, during the weekdays, my activity level some days isn’t as much during the day due to my job. I would say closer to moderate, because there are days I’m behind a computer all day, which could be for days or weeks at a time. And some days where I’m on site scoping and engineering construction projects, which involves mostly walking. But I usually get most workouts in the evenings when I get home. Either working in the garden, the yard, on the house, etc. … I sweat a lot, but also drink a lot of water. I’m also finding I have better results with weight loss when i get a good workout as soon as I get home, and before I eat anything. When I’m in the office during the day, I still try to step out every hour or so and walk for 5-10 minutes

Weekdays I usually average drinking 1.5 possibly 2 Gallons of water daily, and weekends are probably closer to 3 gallons. (especially when working/sweating all day long) … I just find it so strange that now I don’t urinate but every 3 to 5 hours or so? I keep thinking, where the hell is all the water going! :slight_smile: Hell, I used to have to go every 20-30 minutes or sooner at times, and the urgency level is definitely not what it was either! …Major plus!

(Chris W) #34

Yep workout fasted that is always a good bet.
Water levels for me were around a gallon a day in winter at first, now its around 64 oz unless I am sweating a lot. I used a simple method at first and that was my weight divide by two and drink in oz. I add my teaspoon of salt to my water in the morning and make it last all day long, but I do keep reserve salt with me incase I really go through the water or feel tired.