Interesting results using a Ketonix device

ketonix
#1

Hi folks. I saw that a few of you invested in a Ketonix in order to track your breath acetone to see how deep into Ketosis that you are. I wanted to see how deep I would get regularly, during a carb up, and during an extended fast.

During a regular day I would be in the range of nutritional ketosis. My readings were anywhere from 7 to 20 ppm.

Then it got interesting… I had a couple of back to back carb cheat days this past weekend. My thought was that the sensor would read zero (or close to it) since I had carbs to burn. To my surprise when I checked on the first night, I jumped into the Therapeutic range , 35-40 ppm!

Here I thought that maybe since I ate a ton of carbs, that my body would stop using ketones and what I was seeing was the acetoacetate not being used or converted to BHB so it started to spontaneously turn into acetone. If that were the case, I would surely see zero acetone on Sunday morning.

Nope! Still in the therapeutic range!

I checked online and found this explanation on the ketonix site:
https://www.ketonix.com/support-interpretation

High Carb Meal gives a high response.

There are two possibilities: Either the response is caused by methane or by acetone. The normal response after carbohydrate meals is very low/none.

Methane response comes from bacteria breaking down carbohydrates. This is not a normal response and could possibly be a sign of SIBO (small intestine bacteria overgrowth).

Getting a hign response of acetone from a high carb meal could be triggered by too much insulin was released in response to a quick rise of glucose in blood. This is called "Responsive/Postprandial Hypoglycemia". It means your pancreas produces more insulin than needed and glucose and insulin will decrease below normal levels. To protect your brain from being out of energy, ketosis produces ketones as alternative fuel.

I’m likely the second scenario since I don’t have any of the symptoms associated with SIBO. Since I’m fat adapted and likely insulin sensitive after doing 1.5 years of keto that would make sense.

Ok, so now I’m in a 6 day extended fast. Last meal was on Sunday around 8pm (very carby — ice cream and cookies , etc). Didn’t eat on Monday… Cool. Was back in the nutritional ketosis range. I didn’t work out at all, and was VERY sedentary (not my norm).

Today, not having eaten for over 36 hours, I barely register acetone at all. I hit 2 to 4 ppm. Huh? I would have thought that I would have either been at the high range of nutritional ketosis, or in the therapeutic range. I feel fine. Alert. Good energy levels.

Any idea why I’m seeing these types of readings?

I’ll see what my numbers are tomorrow and update this thread.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

One thing to bear in mind is that ketones in the breath and urine are being excreted, so not necessarily a good indication of what your body is actually using at the time.

(Bob M) #3

I think it means you’re using your ketones instead of (over) producing them. If you continue to fast, you should see them go back up.

My ketonix is version 1, and I can only output in “units” not PPM. After 7.5 years low carb, my readings are very low. I’m rarely in the “green” range and never in the “therapeutic” range.

#4

That makes sense. With no food coming in the body has to be more efficient.

I’ll check again after a workout later this afternoon (couple hours later) to see if there is a change.

Happy Anniversary by the way!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

One problem is that breathalyzers can’t distinquish acetone from several other molecules, including ethanol, isopropanol, methane. As noted by the Ketonix support you link, you don’t have to eat or drink any of this stuff to bias the ‘acetone’ reading. Normally, when you’re eating strictly ketogenic, none of these other molecules are around in sufficient quantities to matter. When you ‘carb up’, though, all bets are off. Your microbes could be fermenting a witch’s brew of measurable non-acetone molecules. It may not bias the reading to the extent of having a shot of brandy just before or rinsing with mouthwash. But the bias could affect the reading.

I doubt very much that the second scenario is what’s going on. I suspect that’s wishful thinking on your part. You could pin that down with a CGM. If you got a glucose spike followed soon after by a big drop into the hypoglycemic ‘red zone’, then maybe. Even then it depends how long the spike and drop last. A few minutes or a few hours? Makes a big difference. You’re not going to drop dead if you brain runs low on glucose for a couple hours. If you are indeed relatively well fat adapted, then you could expect the spike and drop not to be very far from your ‘normal’ level. Or to go up/down rather quickly.

Interesting experiment none-the-less. I’m about to commence taking exogenous ketones and observe how that affects my Ketonix readings.

(Bob M) #6

Let me know. I’ve tried these in the past, but I found they made me “jittery”, and I didn’t like them.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

I ordered this stuff:


When I start using it, I will create a new topic to document what happens - if anything. :roll_eyes:

(Bob M) #8

Oh wow, that has a lot.

This is what I have at home, though I have not tried it yet:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

The product you have seems to have even more BHB!

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It’s double the price Canadian, but lots more BHB. So maybe my next purchase. Thanks!

(Bob M) #10

I guess I wasn’t clear (I wasn’t). I meant that your product has more than just exo ketones.

I got this to see if my mother would use it and also transition to a keto diet. She has cancer, and I think keto would help her. This was an attempt to have her take this to see if she feels better on it.

If she doesn’t use it, I make try it.

#11

Methane production makes sense, but according to the Ketonix website “this is not a normal response” citing SIBO as the culprit. Since I didn’t have the symptoms that it highlights I discounted it:

Loss of appetite
Abdominal pain
Nausea
Bloating
An uncomfortable feeling of fullness after eating
Diarrhea
Unintentional weight loss
Malnutrition

So, it might be wishful thinking that I’m so freaken insulin sensitive that my body has to save me by producing tons of ketones :slight_smile: But I don’t know what’s left as an explanation. I have T2D in the family so likely not the case but not sure what else it could be.

As part of your experiment, why take exogenous ketones vs MCT? Just curious.

#12

Hmm… almost 48 hours into a fast, lifted weights about 4 hours ago, and only reading acetone at 10 ppm.

For the record, I’m not chasing ketones, just thought I’d see certain numbers based on my limited knowledge of biochemistry and I’m not.

Let’s see what it looks like tomorrow.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #13

I’ve been keto for 4 1/2 years. I was 2 years in when I got my Ketonix and for several months was quite avidly measuring BrAce. What I mostly discovered was that the ppm of BrAce is all over the map. It could range from < 5ppm to > 60 ppm during the day. Occasionally, it looked like it might be related to some activity or other but mostly it just seemed like random variations. Slowly, over the course of succeeding months it gradually dropped. Now I hardly ever see anything over 5ppm. Here’s the readings from Jul01 through Aug24 this year so far. The > 20ppm spikes are mostly due to having consumed ethanol within a few hours prior to the reading. I think one of them was from mouthwash.

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I don’t even bother graphing and smoothing this anymore. I just don’t think it’s meaningful enough. I’ve generally been taking only a couple of readings, early morning after fasting overnight, sometimes mid-afternoon and evenings. So not a lot of data points, but consistently low. If these numbers have any direct relationship to the quality of ketosis then I’m in really bad shape apparently. I suspect they don’t. But have no idea what to make of it all.

Thus, I’m curious about what if any effect taking exogenous ketones will have. I currently consume either 25 grams of MCT with 33 grams of casein and 25 grams of coconut oil some mornings; or 33 grams of MCT with 100 grams of bacon bits and 33.7 grams of coconut oil other mornings. So every morning I’m consuming MCT and coconut oil. When I drink hot coffee in the morning I put both in the coffee. But I’ve been drinking cold coffee since June.

Mike's Excellent Exogenous Ketones Adventure :eyes:
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14
#15

Just updating in case anyone is interested, or if I have to look back at some point later.

During the 3rd day, roughly 60+ hours into a fast, I was between 5 - 10 ppm all day. I went for a couple of walks but nothing onerous (8km of walking).

On waking this morning (roughly 84 hours in), I had more energy and slept 1.5 hours less than usual. I am alert and BrAce was 38 - 40 ppm. I’ll be weight lifting this afternoon and see what affect that has on my readings.