Initial stages of keto

(ray) #1

Wondering how long the initial stage of Keto lasts before moving to Maintenance? How much fat is required in the first stage per meal, per day and do you eat up to the max 20g carbs in the first stage? Am also doing Intermittent fasting 16/8. I’m 19 days in been IF for 2 weeks of the 19 days. Have lost 15.4 lbs and at least 2 belt notches. Wanted to start the Keto knowing everything necessary to make this efficient as well as healthy, but not there yet. Open to suggestions. I am a 63 year male currently 193.6 lbs and my goal is 175.
Thanks!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

The “initial stage” of keto can mean different things. Ketosis starts as soon as blood glucose drops, but fat adaptation takes usually six to eight weeks, often longer. Mainentance in terms of fat loss begins when fat loss stops. How long the fat-loss period takes depends on how much fat one has to lose.

Twenty grams of carbohydrate is an upper limit; if you can eat less, that is fine. Don’t strive to eat as much as 20 g/day if you are comfortable eating less. The goal is to keep insulin low, and the glucose in every molecule of carbohydrate stimulates insulin secretion. That’s why we recommend fat: fat’s effect on insulin is practically non-existent, making it a safe source of calories to replace the calories no longer coming from carbohydrate. As long as insulin stays low and you give yourself enough calories, your excess of stored fat is free to leave your fat tissue to be metabolised. You know you are eating enough when you stop being hungry; at that point, don’t eat again until you are hungry again.

There is no real difference between eating to satiety during fat loss and eating to satiety during maintenance. The process is the same, it’s just that there are no longer any calories coming from excess stored fat, because it’s all been used up.

(Alec) #3

I don’t think there is a maintenance phase of keto. The principles and guidelines remain the same throughout.

(ray) #4

Paul. You mentioned “As long as insulin stays low and you give yourself enough calories, …” I’ve eaten just over 600 calories today and am not hungry. I ate about 2 hours ago. Is this enough to continue the fat burn or should I force myself to add more fat/calories?

(Alec) #5

Can I beat Paul? :joy:

No, no forcing. Eat to satiety, then stop.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

It’s entirely individual. Not knowing your vital statistics, what you are eating, how you are feeling, and how long it takes between meals until you get hungry again makes it rather hard to give advice. But in general, the body requires two things to be willing to part with its store of excess fat: low carbohydrate intake (since insulin is the primary fat-storage hormone) and adequate energy intake. If you are truly not hungry, don’t worry about it. But when you are hungry, eat until you are satisfied.

The fifteen pounds you lost would seem to be a good indication that you are doing something right.

#7

I like the idea of eating just to satiety but surely we should be keeping track of protein intake too, to ensure adequate amounts are taken? From what I understand if adequate protein isn’t ingested the body utilises it’s own stores ie muscles, thereby slowing metabolism.

I’m probably more concerned about protein than most as I’m vegetarian. In order to make this WOE work I’ve found it easier to start eating fish again simply for the protein.

Although everyone says don’t track calories, I have to. After a lifetime of overeating and tendency to eat when happy and when sad I just can’t trust myself and I really want to lose the weight.

I like using the pee sticks too, added assurance it’s working.

(Carl Keller) #8

I believe that protein, along with fat, is a key variable in the satiety formula. If you aren’t getting enough, your hunger hormone ghrelin, will let you know. If you eat adequate fat and protein, you shouldn’t be hungry for 6-12 hours and maybe even longer. Paying attention to your hunger signals and making the right response will ensure that your metabolism doesn’t slow down.

#9

Yes! He types a lot more words. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#10

Good point. The type of fat you’e consuming in conjuction with that protein might also affect satiety signalling. Are you an ovo-lacto-vegetarian?

(Alec) #11

Yes, yes he does! :joy::joy:

(Raj Seth) #12

FIFY

(Raj Seth) #13

This obsession with protein amongst vegetarians is amusing - my family being mostly in India, and hyper vegetarian - I see it all the time.

That said, the body is a finely tuned machine that has emerged from a billion years of evolution to come to its current form. If the body needs more protein materials it does not attack its muscles first - that would never survive evolution - there are other sources such as skin - the largest organ, 1/6 of your body mass, fully recreated every 2 months. Skin is constantly being broken down and regenerated. It is a big source of protein substrate.

If you don’t consume enough protein for a short while - my unsubstantiated belief is that its fine - but a long term protein deficiency (like weeks) might derange you into muscle loss.

Essential minimum protein needs on a daily basis is somewhat debated, but the minimum level is ridiculously low - somewhere near 0.4g/Kg of lean body mass. So, for a 220# overweight person (me), with a lean body mass of about 132# (60 Kg), that is about 25gm a day. That is not the recommended amount, just the minimum amount. recommended is about double that, 0.8g/Kg, or 50gm daily. You can find the science for this elsewhere on this forum

(Shane) #14

For peace of mind you could take some measurements. Your belt size is good for overall progress and seems to be working well, but maybe arm or leg measurements that could indicate muscle loss if they go down.
I only do upper arm (its easy). Wish now I’d done my legs too.

#15

@carolT I decided to start eating fish again to make this WOE work and I’ll always eat free range eggs. Hoping to get my own chickens again one day.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

My understanding is that 0.6 g/kg is required to replace the nitrogen lost to deamination. (I’m not sure why this occurs, but this is apparently the irreducible minimum of nitrogen loss.) The daily recommended minimum protein intake is thus 0.8 g/kg to provide some cushion.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #17

I have also seen recommended levels as high as 1g. Per pound of lean body mass lately. That’s what I am doing now. Many worry about protein overconsumption but I am experimenting with a 50% increased protein goal, up to 150g per day. And a lower fat amount. I want to see how this affects my progress as I am out of the overweight category as of a couple of weeks ago and am hoping to burn more of my own fat to get into the next phase of my keto journey. :cowboy_hat_face: