Increasing fibre/carbs?

#1

So I see a lot of mainstream Keto gurus now recommend increasing fibre by upping the consumption of vegetables such as cauliflower, cabbage and broccoli etc. Apparently, we shouldn’t worry too much about carbs coming from these types of vegetables. If you are doing this, how many carbs do you now consume and what difference if any has it made?

(Allie) #2

Is this actually a new thing? It was normal keto when I first got here…

(KM) #3

We’ve had several discussions about fiber in the last year on the boards, including this one. People seem equally divided between feeling that BHB from ketosis is as good or better than fiber for the gut bacteria and they do worse with more actual fiber, and that they do need fiber in their diet.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #4

Hmmm I can’t speak for anyone else but for me, these are inedible. FODMAPS bloating, gas pain and sleepless nights

#5

Thanks, I’ll do a search and see if I can find some of those discussions.

#6

I don’t need fiber and feel best by far on carnivore…
When I still ate vegs, I desperately needed my 40g net and unlimited total carbs limit I had on my original (vegetarian) keto! And it doesn’t matter so much if I eat meat, as long as I eat vegs and like them, 1000g is just so minimal at once (at least it was the case with fried cauliflower, that’s why I banned it on keto, even my generous carb limit did’t allow that).

40g net carbs definitely is worse for me than carnivore. Even if I am above 20g sugar on carnivore though I don’t do it every day.

But it’s me. People somehow manage to eat vegs on <20g net/total carbs keto. And many needs fiber.

I feel exactly the same, no matter my fiber intake. Unless if it brings plant carbs, that makes things worse. I have pure fiber, it does nothing, it’s just for baking, for texture.

(Bob) #7

I am carnivore currently but I am not averse to vegetables. I would always aim for less than 20 literal carbs a day. If you are going to do the “net carb” thing, then I do believe it’s safe to subtract fiber from total when it comes to fresh veggies. However, I never trust “net carbs” on manufactured food products, because they are usually lying to you.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

Happy birthday, Bob @Dismal_Bliss!

You are right. Since fibre is by definition indigestible, the amount of fibre can be subtracted from the total amount of carbohydrate. However, in most parts of the world, the nutrition label entry called “Carbohydrate” has already done that subtraction. In the U.S. and Canada, the amount is total carbohydrate and is so labeled.

Eric Westman, however, recommends 20 g of total carbohydrate a day to his patients. He calls it “prescription-strength keto.” He also mentioned in a lecture that there are data to show that some fibres we used to consider indigestible may actually be digestible so some extent.

At any rate, so far as I can tell, the great majority of forum members have no trouble eating or not eating fibre. However, there is a strong minority that must have fibre, or else; and there is another strong minority that must not consume fibre, or else. Each of us needs to figure out which category applies in our particular case.

I became carnivore in large measure to avoid phytoxins, particularly oxalic acid, and I have to say that I do not miss fibre at all. If I get enough salt and fat in my diet, fibre is completely unnecessary.

#9

Not a new thing, I’ve never worried about what’s coming from Keto friendly veggies, not all carbs are evil. Fiber is a great example of that, but even some of the starchy ones. Most of my gut issues came from years of low/no fiber. Took a colonoscopy to wake me up on that one, fiber has been up’d ever since, and all those problems were gone within days, as far as pooping at least.

#11

The biological science ‘U’-shaped curve.

(KM) #12

I’m rereading Jason Fung’s Obesity Code, just got to his thoughts on fiber. He’s not really addressing gut health, but notes that fiber seriously blunts the insulenic effect of high carbs. If you’re not eating refined carbs, it’s unclear whether added fiber has any insulenic benefit.

(Robin) #13

Another classic example of our differing personal truths. I could write the total opposite of your experience @lfod14. I find this fascinating.
But I bet we drive the questioning newbies crazy!

(KM) #14

I just came across an interesting bit of information. Apparently Berberine isn’t recommended for long term use by some because it is an anti-microbial that can mess with the gut biome (and potentially cause diarrhea). So I’d think it’s a possibility that if you’re taking berberine you’ll clear your blood glucose, but possibly need to protect or help the gut biome with fiber in order to avoid digestive distress. ???

(Philip H Kern) #15

I find it hard to go without broccoli, cauliflower, and leaves (cos, oak, dandelion, etc). We eat a lot of slow cooker meals that would normally go over rice or pasta. I boil up some cauliflower and broccoli and chop it up with a fork and knife. Makes a reasonable substitute in that it carries the flavour of the meal without adding many carbs. I’m convinced that I need the fibre, even if others don’t.

#16

I can only speak for me, but been taking Berberine for years and my gut microbiome is very much healthy. Lots of things have anti-microbial properites, but that’s not the same as being like a pharmaceutical antibiotic either.

I’m a huge fan of testing that, also on the killing our gut bacteria front, I use a LOT of Sucralose, it’s my main sweetener, no negative effects that any lab can back up.