Impact of IF and Exercise on Blood Glucose and Ketones

(Joshua Gaines) #1

I’d appreciate feedback on the situation below. I’m a 57-year old male, who used to be IR but never diabetic. I’m about 18 months into dietary ketosis (and 5 years GF before that), have lost about 30 pounds and am approximately 16% BF based on a recent “bod pod” test. My lipids now are ideal (with HDL > Trigs), and I’m rarely really hungry, so I couldn’t recommend this approach more highly for those similarly situated. The last 6 months have been full-carnivore, eating meat, eggs, a few spices, coffee and tea. No dairy, veggies, fruits or sweeteners of any kind. I typically don’t eat between 8 PM and noon the next day, so 16:8 IF. I test blood sugar and ketones once per week on Mondays between 10 and 11 AM, and like clockwork since I’ve been carnivore, I’m in a narrow range around 80 and 1.1, respectively. I’m on vacation now, but eating almost identically to home (so I don’t think that’s relevant).

I usually do stretching and slow-rep resistance exercise for a total of 20 minutes early each morning and some moderate cardio on the weekend plus a couple of short dog walks/day. But this morning I walked briskly (4 mph) for 3 miles and then drove to the gym and did stretching and then a pretty heavy “pull” and legs workout to failure (maybe 40 minutes) and a bit of Concept II rowing finishing up at 10:30. I had no issues doing this exercise while fasted. (Sorry about all the detail, but I am having trouble processing this N=1 result.) I drove home and tested my blood and my ketones didn’t register at all (“lo”) and my blood sugar was 95, which is the highest they’ve tested in almost 6 months. So, did I burn all my ketones and stimulate gluconeogenesis during exercise? I would have retested and assumed a defective test-strip, but since the glucose was abnormal too, I concluded they were both accurate. I hadn’t eaten since 730 PM last night, when I had ground beef, a few unbreaded/plain-ish chicken wings and a couple of eggs between 630 and 730 PM.

So, what happened to my blood test? Many thanks for reading and pondering with me.

Happy Holidays.

Josh

(Carl Keller) #2

Our bodies are remarkable in what they can do when they need something, Glucose is the preferred fuel when we are doing high intensity things like sprinting, but we can run on ketones just fine doing things like jogging. One way we can get the glucose we need is from our muscle’s and liver’s stores of glycogen and another way to get this glucose is via a process called the Cori Cycle (a process in which the liver turns lactate back into glucose).

The way I understand it, gluconeogenesis is a process that takes 2-10 days to happen and it only happens when the body decides it needs to happen (like depleted glycogen in the liver and muscles) but it’s probably much faster if you simply eat some carbs after your workout.

Peter Attia has some good info on what happens during workouts along with some things he’s done to influence his BG levels post-workout.

https://peterattiamd.com/the-interplay-of-exercise-and-ketosis-part-i/

And here’s another article that might help:

(Bob M) #3

My ketones go down and blood sugar up after wokouts.

(Joshua Gaines) #4

Many thanks Carl. I’ll take a look. I’ve been a bit down on Dr. Attia since he’s so far off on the importance of LDL. There’s just not enough science to explain clinical and other observations from the likes of Ken Sikaris, Dave Feldman and Ivor Cummins. But I digress . . .

Thanks again for the recommendations.

CarlKeller

    December 24

JTGaines:
So, what happened to my blood test?

Our bodies are remarkable in what they can do when they need something, Glucose is the preferred fuel when we are doing high intensity things like sprinting, but we can run on ketones just fine doing things like jogging. One way we can get the glucose we need is from our muscle’s and liver’s stores of glycogen and another way to get this glucose is via a process called the Cori Cycle (a process in which the liver turns lactate back into glucose).

The way I understand it, gluconeogenesis is a process that takes 2-10 days to happen and it only happens when the body decides it needs to happen (like depleted glycogen in the liver and muscles) but it’s probably much faster if you simply eat some carbs after your workout.

Peter Attia has some good info on what happens during workouts along with some things he’s done to influence his BG levels post-workout.

https://peterattiamd.com/the-interplay-of-exercise-and-ketosis-part-i/

And here’s another article that might help:

  [Verywell Fit](https://www.verywellfit.com/what-is-glycogen-2242008)

trailrunning-58d6a1583df78c5162d02bc0.jpeg2121×1414 806 KB

Ketogenic Diets and Strenuous Exercise Deplete Glycogen and Burn Fat.

Low-carb diets deplete glycogen, a molecule the body uses to store glucose for fuel. Find out about the role of glycogen in a low-carb diet and exercise.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

Gluconeogenesis is the process of making glucose out of amino acids. Carbohydrate doesn’t need to be turned into glucose, because it is already nothing more than long chains of glucose molecules.

This means that if you eat carbohydrate after your workout, you will inhibit gluconeogenesis, because eating carbohydrate makes it unnecessary, since you are giving your body glucose directly. (Your body will find something else to do with the protein.) The carbohydrate is broken up into its constituent glucose molecules, and this rush of glucose into the bloodstream signals the pancreas to increase insulin, and the insulin signals the liver to stop making glucose from amino acids, because there is already plenty of glucose in the blood. Simple!

#6

Hi Josh-

Detailed post is helpful. I feel like i have a similar story and have had similar readings in the past. I can’t cite anything at the moment, but i was thinking that you have probably become very efficient with your ketone production and use. Your doing well with keto- improved metabolism and not a lot of fat store anymore and been on the diet long enough. Because this was a more extreme workout than usual- you likely burned up your readily available ketones- this the “lo”. At the same time- if you were engaged in a harder than normal workout- you may have been kicking out some adrenaline and cortisol(fight hormones) which are known to raise blood sugar acutely.

When i have seen this happen to me- I’ve sometimes noticed if i ck again later blood sugar goes back down and i may get a rebound of blood ketones( higher than usual). I assume some from ketone production from fat stores due to the extra call for energy. If i eat real fatty after such a scenario i can sometimes get much elevated ketones- probably some from my fat then some from ingested fats bring converted.

Sorry no references to back up my experience or theories- do take it for what it’s worth. Maybe someone will correct me or expand. :ok_hand:

(Bob M) #7

Here’s an example, where my ketones went from 0.8 before workout (BBS = Body by Science, weights to “failure”, HIIT = High intensity interval training, about 50 minutes total) to 0.5 after, and my blood sugar from 107 to 115 (Contour Next EZ pin-prick monitor) or 81 to 88 (FreeStyle Libre continuous glucose monitor):

BSandKetones
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I’ve gotten lower ketones and higher blood sugar, too. (And also no change in ketones, but it depends on what my diet was like beforehand.)

(Bunny) #8

If you look at where I circled on the graph for Dr. Attia’s Cycling exertion work out he is using resistant starch right before he began cycling, hence the drop in glucose and increases in ketones BHB (note: lactate barely increased; Cori Cycle):

image
B13A3B5B-996E-4686-AE49-CBD28596BC41.jpeg1118×893 171 KB

  1. 50 gm of super starch, by Generation UCAN mixed in my water bottles (50 gm super starch which, technically, is a carb but does not behave like one with respect to insulin secretion and ketone suppression – I will write a dedicated post on super starch in the future, but if you must try it now, use this code to get a discount: (“UCANPA”) …More

Important Caveat: that does not necessarily mean that’s a good thing?

#9

Digging a little deeper-

The Attia article was very interesting to me. Admittedly a little confusing because of the products he is taking during the activity.

The high intensity result seems to closely simulate what Josh experienced and also Bob and my own experience- in my opinion. And Attila’s explanation for the high ketones correlates with my experience in a similar situation.

I’ve heard of the UCAN starch- but haven’t studied it. Now I’m more interested in learning about it.

Great post Josh- lot if interesting angles to this physiology. :+1:

(Bunny) #10

BTW: that resistant starch is the ‘carbohydrate flame’ talked about so frequently here and their by the cycling geeks et al. when eaten by itself (without other foods). Not the same kind of carbs or carb you get from a SAD diet is what I think, is really being talked about?

References:

  1. “…Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame. Think of a candle, where the wick is your carbohydrate intake and the base is your fat storage. You need to light the wick to access the base and tap into this large reserve of energy. The science behind this is based on a substance known as pyruvate. Pyruvate is formed during glucose metabolism and if glucose is not present, fat has nowhere to attach to the mitochondria, which can slow the metabolism, and halt or significantly decrease fat oxidation . …” …More
  1. Ketones and Carbohydrates: Can they co-exist? - Dr. Peter Attia
  1. “…Resistant starch is a type of starch that’s “resistant” to digestion — your body can’t break it down. Usually, enzymes in your small intestine digest starches and turn them into sugar. …” …More
  1. “… When you eat resistant starch, it ends up in your large intestine, where the bacteria digest it and turn it into short-chain fatty acids (14). …” “… Due to its therapeutic effects on the colon, resistant starch may aid various digestive disorders. …” …More
  1. Bottom Line: If you’re currently trying to break a weight loss plateau, have high blood sugars, digestive problems or if you’re simply in the mood for some self-experimentation, then trying out resistant starch seems like a good idea. …More
  1. Ask Dr. Gundry: Will resistant starches kick me out of ketosis?
  1. Podcast #177 - Dr. Grace Liu: Fixing the Gut Microbiome with Resistant Starch and Probiotics

Note: soil based probiotics are not the same as mass produced petri dish probiotics you get at your local health food store (yet), the difference is in gut survivability, proper functionality, and proper ratios of varieties as to what you would find in nature…

  1. What Are Short-Chain Fatty Acids? Short-chain fatty acids are fatty acids with fewer than 6 carbon [C] atoms (2).They are produced when the friendly gut bacteria ferment fiber in your colon, and are the main source of energy for the cells lining your colon. For this reason, they play an important role in colon health (1). Excess short-chain fatty acids are used for other functions in the body. For example, they may provide roughly 10% of your daily calorie needs (2). Short-chain fatty acids are also involved in the metabolism of important nutrients like carbs and fat (3). About 95% of the short-chain fatty acids in your body are: •Acetate (C2). •Propionate (C3). •Butyrate (C4). Propionate is mainly involved in producing glucose in the liver, while acetate and butyrate are incorporated into other fatty acids and cholesterol (4). Many factors affect the amount of short-chain fatty acids in your colon, including how many microorganisms are present, the food source and the time it takes food to travel through your digestive system (5). …More
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

But don’t forget that when we become fat-adapted, our muscles are metabolizing fatty acids and leaving the glucose and ketone bodies that the liver produces for those cells that need them.

#12

Good point! Thx!:grinning: