I'm concerned my metabolism and calorie in take after 2 months on Keto - weight loss plateau


(Katie Egervari) #1

So, I’m a 38 year old female and I’ve been doing Keto and fasting 16-20 hours per day for a little over 2 months. My starting weight was 225 and I am 185 today, so 40 pounds lost in 70 days. I’m super happy about that, but the last 1.5 weeks have been extremely slow with the fat loss - 186.8 to 185.0 over the span of 2 weeks, and to be honest, all of that fat loss came from my first 48-hour fast and not from day-to-day (which seems stable no matter what I eat).

Believe it or not, I know what my set point already is - I used to weigh 145 pounds for long periods of time until I became a software executive, being promoted from an architect. And after 1.5 years of that, being a director and a CTO, my cortisol went through the roof, and so did my carb intake and the number of times I ate per day. I went to 225 in basically 1.5 years. It’s a good thing I didn’t say there for several decades or anything, which I think is going to help make stuff easier.

I had my blood work done, and apparently, I already reversed insulin resistance and any risk of heart attack already. I went from a resting heart rate of 160 to 88. My blood pressure went from 145/89 to 103/74. My triglycerides are something like 23… nowhere near 150 or higher. My ldl was the lowest it had ever been in my life when comparing to past blood tests. My sugars are way down - I forget the nunber exactly. I couldn’t get insulin tested for some reason, although I requested it, but I suspect it’s also at normal levels at this point.

I have read that if you’re metabolically healthy and insulin isn’t moving much, it’s going to be a lot harder to lose weight on keto. I am using the right macros (although I suspect my protein calculation is too high perhaps). I don’t cheat. I don’t consume grains, sugar, processed vegetable oils. I eat whole foods. I’m positive I’ve over-compensated and nearly perfected everything early - probably to my detriment as I have nothing obvious to improve anymore.

My calories are in a deficit this entire time. Some days are higher, like 1400-1500, but usually they are between 1250-1300 and sometimes as low as 1100. I pretty much eat to satiety - or close to it. I don’t make big meals - only eating 2 meals a day. My protein hovers around 80g-90g (larger if I eat a rib-eye steak). My fats are variable - I’d like to get them to 60g, but that’s stupidly difficult to do since you really do want to add fats to meals to lower overall insulin response. My net carbs never go above 20g, and they are often 10 or 15g just because I am paranoid.

I’m pretty much at a loss. I’m mostly thinking of ways to lower insulin further - dropping protein for example to reduce my insulin load of ~65g to maybe 40 or 50g daily, perhaps limiting myself to just bacon, eggs, duck, herring, mackerel and nuts, since they have low insulin responses despite being proteins. Doing that will put me to about 900 calories daily, and that has got me worried :frowning: I can make it work… no recipes… eat for nutrition only and who gives a crap what it tastes like. I can do it for 2-3 months. I really can, if it won’t mess up my metabolism I will do it. But I’m scared. 900 is low.

Alternatively, I could just eat normally - and I don’t even know what ‘normal’ calories are these days and just fast 45% of days, basically using the scale as a guide to when and when not to fast - basically Dr. Fung’s approach. If I did this approach, should I bring my feast days back to 1800-1900 calories at 3 meals per day? Or just keep it at ~1300? The truth is, I used to eat 3000 calories a day probably, and now I find it very hard to eat more than 1500, despite not getting all of the nutrition my body needs. I have no idea what to do here honestly.

Thanks for helping me. I don’t want to get stressed out over the plateau - will be counter productive. Thank you.

<3

Katie


(KCKO, KCFO) #2

I find doing Intermittent fasting helps keep my weight off. I used that in combination to lose down to my goal weight. I had stalls and reading Dr. Fung’s Guide to Fasting lead me to do the IF and the extended fasts.

Do you do IF, it might help if you are not currently doing that, along with a few slightly longer fasts throughout the month.

Congrats on all the wonderful results you reported. Your body seems to like how you are feeding it currently.


(LeeAnn Brooks) #3

Do not go to 900 calories.

Couple thoughts:

  1. try alternate day fasting or fasting 1 or 2 days a week. Much better for your metabolism than restricted calories.

  2. try a week or two at higher calories. It maybe that you are lower than you think and your metabolism is slowing down. I would go up at least 200 calories each day.

  3. if fasting isn’t for you and you don’t want to up calories for an extended period, shock your system by having at least 1 high calorie day a week. Hit at least 2000-2200. I find this effective. The body gets used to a set point if your remain at it too long. Feeding it more will jump start it.


(Katie Egervari) #4

@collaroygal I’ve already been intermittent fasting 16-20 hours per day, every day. I never skip fasting actually. I was wondering if my body was just ‘used’ to it, and perhaps I need to do extended fasts of at least 36 hours at minimum now to see more progress.

And thanks!


(KCKO, KCFO) #5

You might want to join the June Zornfast, to try for the longer fasting, great support and it starts this week


(Katie Egervari) #6

@Anniegirl9 Thanks! I’m going to try these. To me, alternate day fasting seems like it would be pretty easy to do - my ghrelin hormone is functioning great. I’ll try upping calories too. It does seem like I don’t gain any weight at all when I increase calorie intake - it just remains flat. So yeah, that sounds like something to try. Maybe I can bring up the calories to 1800-2000 and just do alternate day fasting from there.


(Ron) #7

That sounds like a good plan. I might add even upping more on a day or two and then doing a 48 hr or more fast. This reallly drops the weight for me.


(Katie Egervari) #8

I have one more small question if anyone could be kind enough to answer it. I know insulin blocks the burning of fat, but let’s assume insulin is at healthy levels, and your meals are not very insulogenic, so you’re likely in fat-burning quite a bit throughout the day despite eating 2 meals. Do you still need to create the caloric deficits, or is the mere prescience of glycogon and ketones causing the burning of fat despite your caloric intake?

I mean, the calories in = calories out model obviously makes no sense, and doesn’t hold up to science or even my own personal results over the last 2 months at all. I shouldn’t have lost 40 pounds in such a quick time, and I shouldn’t have stalled if the CI=CO model was correct, because I’ve been in a 20-30% deficit the entire time.

But if the CI=CO model does operate the way they said it would while in ketosis and burning fat, then you’d still have to create a caloric deficit, yes? And if you want to stay at maintenance weight, you’d just consume 2000 calories or whatever every day? If so, then I actually don’t understand why I stalled - my only theory is that insulin is now “normal” and isn’t getting lower while eating food, hence no more body fat loss.

I ask this because there are lots of people giving their meal plans… and they look extremely excessive to me to the point where I don’t think they could work. One guy was eating 2 snacks and 3 meals… and I thought to myself, “I don’t care if this is ketogenic food, you’re producing a lot of insulin there buddy.” And then I saw another Youtube video, and she had 3 massive meals and 1 dessert - probably 3000 calories worth. With so much dietary fat, how can this person actually lose weight? Or was that likely a maintenance diet?

It’s very confusing. Dr. Fung, Mark Sisson and others haven’t really been clear, or maybe I skipped a paragraph or something. Can someone fill in the pieces so I get the complete picture of how it works? Thanks!


(Alec) #9

I think this is the cause of the stall. Continuous calorie deficit will lead to lower calorie usage until balance. And it’s not good for you. I suggest (same as everyone else :thinking:) that you up the calories for a while (more fat), and then start some fasts.

How to up the calories when you’re not hungry? Eat less of the non-fat things, and eat more fat.


(Alec) #10

Here’s the point: dietary fat doesn’t raise insulin, hence body remains in fat burning mode. Calories are higher, body recognises the plenty of fuel state, and burns fat (both dietary and body) for all sorts of things that it didn’t when it was being starved of fuel. Calorie usage increases when you feed the body.

So, CICO is technically true. The problem is it leads people to the wrong conclusions and actions because there is not enough understanding of what the body does in response to changes in calorie intake.


(LeeAnn Brooks) #11

I don’t think you can find many people who can eat 3000 calories of high fat foods. Sure some, but not many.

Could they be making extra food for leftovers? I know Diet Doctor meal plans are designed to be a double batch so you eat half for dinner and the second half for lunch the next day.

Yes, calories in the extreme will cause weight gain, but very get people can eat that amount of food. The general rule is eat to satiety, with the caveat that if you aren’t getting enough calories in to be above starvation levels, then eat more fat.


(Ron) #12

This-

It is my understand that the body will expel excess dietary fat if too much is consumed when insulin levels are kept low and not able to support the storage process.


(Leslie) #13

I agree in increasing the calorie per day. I would recommend all of those be fat. Especially if there is already a question of total protein intake being questionable.

Great answer, BTW.
I love this forum

KCKO


(Katie Egervari) #14

Well, I think it’s safe to say I am fat-adapted with the current levels of fat in my diet - the % is still very high, like 60-70% most days. And ghrelin doesn’t fire that much, so I’m probably very fat adapted. What I don’t understand is why the body didn’t use the fat in the body lately - all of the conditions were right, and it had the ability to eat my own body fat to avoid the total calorie deficit and it just chose not to :confused:

So… how much dietary fat can you consume per day while ensuring you will still burn a significant amount of body fat? Right now, if I weren’t ‘trying’ and just making the meals as I like them, I’d consume somewhere between 70-90g of fat. Also, without restricting, I consume around 80-100g of protein (but this does raise insulin, so I’m thinking of going down to 60-70g to see if that makes any difference). My carbs are always lower than 20g, and I’m so paranoid I often go lower.


(Katie Egervari) #15

@Anniegirl9 How much fat per day (in grams) would you recommend? My current levels are typically 70-90g, according to chronometer.


(LeeAnn Brooks) #16

I wouldn’t worry too much about hitting any fat macros.
As long as you remain under 20g carbs, keep protein at moderate range, fill the rest in with fat.

For instance if you are just going to up calories 200 per day. That’s as easy as adding 2 tablespoons homemade tarter sauce to a fish dinner. All fat.
Or a handful of macadamia nuts.

If I were going to do the single high day per week, I would do it in 2 or 3 meals, as for me personally I can’t get 2000+ calories in a single meal. But I wouldn’t change up what you’re eating too much, just increase portion sizes and add butters, oils or mayo to increase fat/calories. Have a nice fat bomb for a dessert. That’s a great way to increase fat/calories. I love to take 3 tbsp marscapone and flavor with vanilla, cinnamon and a drop of Stevia. If I have room I’m my carbs, I’ll use a couple dark chocolate squares to dip in it. Otherwise just eat with spoon. So good as a dessert at end of meal.

I think your goal is just to change it up so your body has react and start burning more.


#17

Katie, you’ve gotten some wonderful feedback, but I just want to point out: you’ve lost 40 pounds in 2 months (wow!!) and your loss is slowing to the still very good 1 lb/week. I don’t think “stall” is the word for what’s happening here :slight_smile:
A few other notes: your weight set point on keto might be different than your previous set point; women in particular seem to see some nice recomposition on keto, so folks who reach their goal size find that they weight substantially more (but look amazing).
You seem to be using “fat loss” interchangeably with “weight loss.” Unless you’re doing weekly dexa scans, those two things are not equivalent.


#18

Katie, big congratulations on your phenomenal successes! I think your questions are good and you’re getting really good feedback here. The only thing I would like to add is that, especially after all the success you’ve had so far, I’d caution against making changes that you feel are unsustainable (such as the very highly restrictive diet you mentioned) over a long period of time.

Stalls happen to everyone, and sometimes it’s just that the body takes a break from weight loss while fixing other things. (And I recently had two weeks of actual mild weight GAIN during a pre-menstrual stall.) If you break that stall through an unsustainable change, you might find the weight coming right back once you undo the change. Some of the other changes advised may work well for you because they might be easier to work into a long-term WOE.

Dr. Benjamin Bikman’s talk (called something like “Insulin vs. Ketones”) from a low carb conference and on YouTube, does an excellent job reviewing why the body develops calorie flexibility when in a ketogenic state. If you haven’t seen it, you might want to, it’ll give you some anxiety relief regarding calorie intake.

I think longer fasts are a great idea too. After the first few 48-72 hr fasts, I’ve found (as others have) that they get much easier and aren’t hard to keep as a part of a longer term plan.

Again, congrats on your success so far, it sounds like you’re doing great!


(KCKO, KCFO) #19

Check out Richard’s calculator, it if for determining how much extra fat you need during a fast, but I found it helpful to see how much my body can access, so not just for fasting.

This is a helpful reminder too, from Amy Burger, she has done a podcast on Daisy’s Keto Woman #34 Amy Berger


(Katie Egervari) #20

Thanks so much for the great feedback!!! And no, I actually have not watched that video… and here I was thinking I had watched and read everything… Dr. Fung, Dr. Lustig, Dr. Attia, Mark Sisson, etc. I will do that right now! Thank you!