If you “can’t live without it” it’s controlling you and you are better than that


(Ron D. Garrett) #21

As a person who recently gave caffeine up for sometime as an experiment I completely agree :joy:


(Ron D. Garrett) #22

Love that quote. Thank you l!


(Ron D. Garrett) #23

I completely agree!


(Ron D. Garrett) #24

Thank you so much!!


(Central Florida Bob ) #25

The pure wisdom in this is just amazing, Donna. I’m going to use this.

My brother is T2D and currently having problems. I’ve given him every podcast and link I can think of. He’ll go keto for a few weeks, have great results - like losing a pound a day and having normal blood sugars, and then fall off, and go into a self-destructive cycle of “I’m just weak”… “I’m just a bad person”. That kind of stuff.

I’ve got to use your analogy on him.


#26

Well, I think for those people, it is the other way around: “Unless I eat sugar, I will get crazy for sugar.” instead of “if I eat sugar, I get crazy for more sugar.”

Of course, in common sense, no one would like to get burnt by the burner, so commonly no one would put their hand on the burner. But, please consider some mentally-challenged people who knew it burns, yet they cannot help themselves from putting their hands on the burner(and let’s also consider some people who are crazy and like to get burnt… ahem, those kinds of people are just simple insane and crazy). And, it is considering that fire caused an immediate harm(burning), while carb causes the harm that is not as immediate(To those diabetes people, as it is OBVIOUSLY not immediate harm to those still-normal people.)

Note: my definition of immediate is “within seconds”.

Sometime it is likely that it is the other way around: Without sugar, he will go crazy if without willpower. It is not just “eat sugar, and it goes uncontrolled”.


#27

Actually when I said all of them, I was thinking of a fictional example: Big Mum from “One Piece”. <_<


(Ellen) #28

It did Ron, very wise words.


(Doug) #29

Good stuff, Ron. Rather the opposite, philosophically, of “There are some pleasures worth dying for.”

In the end, I think we all end up somewhere in the middle.


(Ron D. Garrett) #30

Thank you!


(Ron D. Garrett) #31

Thank you for your kind words my keto friend!


(Doug) #32

You’re welcome, Ron. You working those arms? :sunglasses::wink:


#33

I heartily agree that self-mastery - and being able to go without a bunch of stuff on a regular basis - is what life is about. Ideally, we’d learn how to both fast and feast properly, like our ancestors did for the majority of human history! Ideally, we’d develop formidable self-discipline, emotional intelligence, and altruism and be able to help others and serve a higher good. I think that’s what human potential and real maturity is about. I’ve been challenging myself with self-discipline and personal development for most of my adult life (am 52). In the late 1980s I had the privilege and educational access to leave things like fast food, soda, to stop buying factory farmed abused cow dairy and instead buy from a small local farm, to eat my greens, and to stop cooking with and eating hydrogenated industrial fats as well as stopping all medications except aspirin or emergency medicine. It just made ethical sense to try to live and eat in a bit more traditional way (though it took me much longer to incorporate meat, I was a moral/spiritual vegetarian for a long time). I also embarked on freeing myself from dysfunctional emotions and relationships and colonized beliefs. I studied spices and non-SAD cuisine along with food-as-medicine with some amazing elder teachers. So, at this point I’ve made my own ghee for about 25 years - and have long practiced additional ‘fountain of ageing’ embodiment physical practices with slow weight lifting, intensive yoga, and martial arts. All in a journey of recovery, really - because life is precious, and why not?

However, when the OP wrote “I also love how people are not willing to give up things that are harming them and will even say “oh…I don’t know if I can live without that” or “I can’t give that up” not realizing that that is an addictive mindset that God never intends for us to have” it didn’t ring quite true to me. My response was 'And: let he who is blameless cast the first stone… geez Luigi!" Notions of “God” aside (the word being literally manmade in ways that don’t work for me to convey the great cosmic mother-father-birther as translated from Aramaic and other languages of pre-industrial, earth-based/aboriginal, matricentric cultures which worship the Source of Life most esp in its female form - but I digress…) because there are plenty of non-religious spiritual folks and/or compassionate, humble athiests here in this forum - I do stridently question the wisdom of dismissing the health benefits of small amounts of certain wine for certain people - according to its digestive harmony when eating dairy heavy foods.

Let’s remember that addiction comes in many forms of dopamine-driven activities and temporary blood chemistry highs. Some of us here are metabolically deranged, and some aren’t. Some have particular substance abuse histories, some don’t. I do firmly believe that we live in what has been defined as a “Culture of Addiction” by William L. White. Recovery from this culture itself is something that touches each and every one of us in western industrial culture, with varying degrees of harm. Whether it’s addiction to sleeping pills, or enmeshed relationships, material possessions, identity/ego, plastic surgery, compulsive sexuality, compulsive exercising, or attitudes of supremacism that boost the ego (white, male, human), or one’s weekly entertainment schedule that one can’t go without in the Laz-Z-Boy chair… Anything that elicits a withdrawal response, a weakened ability to do without it or an insecurity or anxiety without such habits of mind and body - is problematic, and worth getting free from and becoming more alive. Anger/rage can also function as an addictive vicious cycle - it goes well with dogmatism both of which can can in fact be habitual ways of thinking and experiencing the world. As keto is a way of life, not a fad, and it does nourish the brain and enhance psychological well being, I’m definitely OPTIMISTIC about the general recovery benefits for long-term ketoers (esp far away from social media and its oft toxic culture). :rainbow:

The original LCHF authors Dr. Mary Dan Eades and Dr. Michael Eades, as well as Drs. Phinney & Volek, and LCHF/keto cardiologist Aseem Malhotra in the film The Big Fat Fix bless small/moderate (ie, non-compulsive) amounts of wine with food as healthful and even recommended with certain cuisine for certain people. Let’s not ignore that. In addition, the ketogenic scholar and forum member, the Romanian Christi Vlad in the fabulous book Periodic Fasting: Repair your DNA, Grow Younger, and Learn to Appreciate your Food reports on the history of cuisine-associated moderate wine and the wonders of red wine’s activation of the rejuvenative SRIT1 - along with yearly fasting (religious related). This may well explain why the French, despite a high-fat diet and frequent wine consumption, have been known to live long, healthy lives - until quite recently, since industrial snacks and fast food have invaded even the village shops. :angry:

There are subtleties and nuances deserving of incorporation. Intoxication is a different blood chemistry than a small glass of red wine with plenty of cheese or heavy meats. Likewise, partaking of anything more than a tablespoon or two of red wine during the earliest keto weeks even with fat-heavy cuisine may indeed not be advised for most, while the fatty liver is healing.

I know for myself, I naturally reduced my amount of red wine in those early weeks, simply because the body and liver felt too sensitive. However, after significant fat adaptation, it changed. And even keto folks who celebrate a special event meal with, TWO glasses of bubbly, or mixed drinks with food a couple times a year can be well within the fold of sobriety, health, and intrinsic joy.

(However, this does NOT apply to metabolically deranged folks much - nor to those with predispositions towards alcohol abuse or food abuse that give them overindulgence tendencies for a long time even when solidly fat-adapted - nor to those just starting LCHF/keto. In such cases, a tablespoon or two of red wine can become a slippery slope if one has alcohol cravings issues).

So, I think we need to see things from various angles and understand various contexts and rigorously incorporate a multicultural and highly informed analysis (ie, use our brain). I came from an alcohol-abstaining family with several ‘dry drunks’ who were rage addicts - and most all of my bio family prematurely ages, is metabolically deranged, medication-dependent, facing down other diagnoses etc. So, I think it’s short-sighted to dismiss dry red wine as “all alcohol is poison” when in fact emotions can be toxic, and small amounts of red wine in relation to plenty of dairy fat or with dense fatty proteins, actually enhances gastrin, and digestive health may well be the center of all health.

In addition, both Catholic and Orthodox christianity and Judaism incorporate small amounts of red wine into regular ceremony - and it is said that Christ himself made wine, blessed it, and drank it. There are others here who know much more about that than I. Outside the Americas at least, alcohol has been part of human life and culture for thousands of years - whether for frequent meals wth fermented grapes or for occasional revelry with a variety of fermented beverages from a wide array of fruits, grains, and honey - all “live fermented”. Regarding grape wine, I’ve long enjoyed the work of molecular biologist Stig Erlander (who lived a robust and healthy life and died well in his 90s, RIP) and his argument that red wine (particularly the traditionally fermented/homebrew) was a potent therapeutic digestive related to certain cuisine.

I’m grateful for Trader Joe’s organic Green Fin Red Table Wine - and have a small glass whenever I eat cheesy dinners or a wine-marinated meat dishes. I prefer Asian & African food though, and never want red wine with that cuisine. Keto is about long-term living and rebalancing. As a non-IR, non-obese person who partakes of red wine as a digestive and sacred beverage - my measurements and increased muscles show fantastic keto progress over the last almost one year.

I enjoy occasional red wine, and also leave it for weeks at a time :wink: Bon appetit, and Salud!!! :grapes: :wine_glass:


(Ron D. Garrett) #34

By no means was I condemning anyone for drinking. I am going by the very definition of what alcohol does when it enters the body and how the body approaches dealing with it and in that vein it treats it as a poison and the same can be said for many supplements, certain minerals and even high doses of vitamins BUT that was not the tenant of the post. As you can see when you recall the post I used alcohol as an example of what people don’t want to give up even when they know that they need to make a change and it will hinder their progress which could in the long run hurt them. Maybe I could have used a different term but in this instance I’m referring to the clinical definition of a poison and how the body reacts to it and alcohol when ingested is dealt with by the human body like a poison as noted by “lifehacker” and most doctors who deal with liver toxicity issues:

“Your body sees alcohol as a poison, or at least as something it doesn’t actually want inside it. To fight back, and sober you up, humans produce an enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase. … On contact, it snatches a hydrogen atom off the ethanol molecules in your drink, rendering it into non-intoxicating acetaldehyde.Nov 9, 2010”

And: https://www.healthline.com/health/alcohol/effects-on-body#3

So you see…my words were NOT an indictment on drinking as I can or will drink but it was to ensure that anyone reading what I wrote understands how the body views alcohol and how/why it is prioritizes I’m being dealt with by said body over almost anything else because if it does not deal with it alcohol could kill them…the very definition of a poison. I drink but I drink being informed (though I haven’t drank in around a couple of years by choice NOT by fear of drinking).

But I do understand where you are coming from yet the main tenant of my post remains. If one feels that they cannot live without something then it’s already a problem and that includes alcohol.


#35

I see - thanks for clarifying!

I wasn’t disagreeing w/ the self mastery part, as my whole first para was about that. I think that for absolute blanket statement out there - such as ‘alcohol is poison’ - can be found other angles depending on context. The absolute and the relative level of things are always interacting, etc. Freeing the mind & heart from addiction and dependency is a big subject in this culture - moderation in anything is relatively rare!

Here’s to metabolic healing and fat-fueled brains & hearts! :avocado:


(Ron D. Garrett) #36

Agreed!


(Sheila) #37

I have a friend who says I have a lesser quality of life because I do not eat the way he does. He is overweight, diabetic and has already had one stroke. I still can’t convince him that being healthy is quality of life. Eating and drinking oneself to death is neglecting the gift of life God gave us.


(Ron D. Garrett) #38

Amen!


#39

I would say it depends. Maybe he doesn’t enjoy the life already, so when you said God gave us the gift of life, the life might not seem like a gift for him.

So, it is not that he wants to eat and drink to death: It is that even if he doesn’t do like that, he has no ability to enjoy the life elsewhere. heh


(Ron D. Garrett) #40

I would say also ARE U HAPPY? That’s all that counts. I was extremely unhappy 70 lbs ago…not so much now. :joy: