If keto people are fasting so frequently, how is that any different from a starvation diet?

fasting
(Patricia) #1

I’m not trying to be difficult here, but sometimes it seems to me that the emphasis on fasting kind of demonstrates that for some people eating keto is lacking. I’ve been on many diets over the years, most of them some variation of low calorie, and sometimes it seems that keto + fasting means I have to starve myself and go hungry a lot.

I have been doing keto for over 3 years and have lost about 55 pounds. I still need to lose 20-30 more, and I still have a lot of fat around my mid-section. I’m over 65, short, female, and have a family history of type 2 diabetes. I have tried fasting with extremely limited success, as in I was ready to gnaw the leg off a table after skipping one meal. Lately, I have found myself being hungry quite often even when going several hours without eating. It’s becoming increasingly frustrating.

I lost a fair amount of weight rather quickly when I first started and then started hitting plateaus for months at a time. I found I had to lower my caloric intake to 1300 calories a day, and still I am losing very slowly - maybe a pound a month. I even tried to count total carbs instead of net carbs, but 5% isn’t much when you are only eating 1300 calories a day. My son and daughter have had more success with keto, but, of course they are still young.

Some of the posts I have read about fasting sound like what an anorexic would do - going days without food. Is that really healthy? Is that what people have to do to lose weight or maintain weight loss? Doesn’t the body start using up muscle? It sounds like a pretty miserable way to live.

(Bob M) #2

It’s not required that you fast. If you feel bad when fasting, then don’t do it.

For me, fasting (seems to) create more benefits than does low carb/keto by itself. And I honestly have a difficult time eating breakfast or many meals per day. Sometimes I do, if I’m really hungry, but most days I’m good with two meals a day (can only do one meal a day maybe once a week).

(Patricia) #3

When you eat this way (or not eat, I guess I should say), do you get hungry? Right now I am battling hunger much of the day. Most of the time, people tell me I should fast to kick start more weight loss, and to not be hungry. Seems unlikely since I’m already hungry a lot just spacing out meals.

Is fasting with keto different from going without food on any kind of diet?

(Polly) #4

Fasting is a natural state which would have been experienced by our ancestors between kills of whatever the major food species at the time was in their area. In contrast, the Minnesota Starvation experiments of the 1940s restricted calories which led to a starvation situation.

Our physiology and biochemistry has developed and evolved to cope with no food intake in a way that it simply cannot handle restricted food intake.

Dr Jason Fung explains it extremely well in his books https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Fasting-Intermittent-Alternate-Day/dp/1628600012/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Jason+Fung&qid=1563914416&s=gateway&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Obesity-Code-Unlocking-Secrets-Weight/dp/1771641258/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Jason+Fung&qid=1563914448&s=gateway&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Diabetes-Code-Prevent-Reverse-Naturally/dp/1771642653/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Jason+Fung&qid=1563914448&s=gateway&sr=8-3
any or all of which are well worth a read or listen.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #5

I usually eat one meal a day (OMAD). For my OMAD I eat anywhere from 1800-2200 calories. I’m usually not very hungry during the day, and what little bit there is, is tempered by drinking water.

Maybe the thing for you is to up calories. Do you eat enough at your meals? Are you snacking?

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #6

As others have said, fasting is not required. However, when people do plan to fast they usually eat more (feast) before hand.

(Patricia) #7

Yes, I know that, but I’m getting tired of being hungry most hours of the day, and somehow I don’t think that eating even less often is going to make me less hungry. I’m glad that fasting is a viable option for so many keto people, and apparently, they aren’t miserable doing it. I wonder how many people fast and are miserable, but they put up with it in order to achieve their goals.

I’m really not trying to be a pain in the rear; I just don’t understand how people can go so long without eating and feel like they are doing some kind of penance.

(Patricia) #8

I try not to snack. I do eat 3 meals a day. Lately I have been an early riser (we old folks do that), but I try not to eat until 8 am. Then I try not to eat until lunch. Today I had lunch at noon and have not eaten anything since then. It’s 4 pm now, and I’m really hungry. I will hold off until dinner, but later in the evening I am hungry again. For most of the time I have been doing keto, I was able to resist evening eating, but for the last week or so, I have given in. I’m almost afraid to weigh myself. I don’t want to go back to where I was.

When I eat a meal, I do eat a fair amount. I’m afraid I’m getting into my old dieter’s mindset where I stuff a lot of food in at mealtimes, because I know I don’t get to eat again for several hours. Years of dieting really messed me up.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #9

Go ahead and eat until you are full at your meal times. There’s no point in eating half way and being hungry two hours later.

For the record I don’t fast either. I cannot tolerate the headache, fatigue and gnawing stomach pain. I know there are tips and tricks for managing these things but I have a history of disordered eating and it’s too much of a trigger for me. My point is, you aren’t the only one not fasting, many don’t.

(Stephen Readman) #10

Out of interest, what are you eating to get that amount of calories on OMAD?

I struggle to get enough calories in when I eat OMAD.

Thanks

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #11

I drink a cup of heavy cream to up my fat and calories. I’m not trying to lose weight, so I need to make sure to get enough to eat.

(bulkbiker) #12

That’s simply not how most feel… are you getting enough fat with your meals and how many carbs per day are you having?
Your symptoms sound pretty typical of someone who hasn’t yet achieved a proper state of ketosis where the hunger simply isn’t there.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #13

Can you post examples of what you are eating at your meals? If you are feeling hungry after eating then maybe we can come up with some tweaks to help you feel satisfied longer. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Patricia) #14

I suppose it’s possible, but I have been doing keto for over 3 years. If I’m not in ketosis yet, then yikes! I try to limit my carbs to about 20 g per day, and certainly less than 25. Now I’ve been counting net carbs, and know many people think you should count total carbs. That is pretty hard core.

(bulkbiker) #15

Try a few weeks of pure carnivore and see if that helps?.. You still haven’t given us any daily meals though… do you track carbs very closely?

(Brandy) #16

The equation is set up incorrectly here. It’s not an “add fasting to your keto when you hit a plateau” diet.

Often people want to gain the benefits of fasting beyond weight loss, such as a complete flushing of insulin, cell regeneration and the clean up of old, useless proteins. A Ketogenic diet compliments fasting nicely, because it teaches your body how to use fat, whether it’s on your plate or on your gut, to draw down energy, instead of relying on quick burning carbs.

I personally started fasting after many months of eating a Ketogenic diet and frankly, I never planned to incorporate it at all. But I just wasn’t getting hungry all the time anymore, so I naturally started restricting my eating window from hours to days at a time. Once I studied up on the regenerative benefits of fasting, elongating the time fasted was a cinch, because I had created the right conditions to do so comfortably.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t have twinges of hunger when fasting, but if hydrated and salted properly, it’s fine. It does not feel miserable or like penance (which is a truly ridiculous mental construct- totally unhelpful to the human condition).

With that said, as I lose weight and I have less fat to keep me going, the amount of time I can comfortably fast has shortened. The most important part of this grand experiment for me is to check in with myself every few months and make behavioral changes that appropriately address the changes that have occurred in my body. I’ve lost almost 90 pounds in the last year and four months but the last twenty of that has taken me twice as long to lose as the first 70 did. Thems the breaks. Just keep calm and keto on. Don’t worry about fasting right now. It’s giving you too much anxiety. I also agree with other commenters that you’re probably eating too little at mealtime. If you’re eating enough fat during meal, you should t be experiencing hunger so soon after. I will say that I understand your struggle with night eating. It’s my arch nemesis and the biggest obstacle I’ve had over the last year.

(PSackmann) #17

One thing here, every time my body has become exceptionally hungry, I’ve had a whoosh soon after. Follow those hunger cues, making sure to eat fat as your snack. My favorite (don’t knock it till you try it) is a pat of butter with a bit of salt on it. It lets my body know that there’s no shortage of fat intake, so it’s safe to let go of some of my reserves. Give it a try, staying with pure fat snacks, and see how it goes. Also, fasting isn’t necessary. I skip breakfast and sometimes lunch as well, based on how my body feels, but other days I eat all day long.

(Patricia) #18

OK, I guess this is confession time in a way? :wink:

For the past week and a half I have not been as disciplined, but here is what I ate today:

Breakfast - 2 slim jims and approximately 4 TBSP half n half in coffee with Splenda. 2 fish oil capsules and 1 triple omega fat capsule

Lunch was 1 Johnsonville sausage (2 g carbs) with mustard, 2 sticks of celery with 2 TBSP onion dip, approximately 14 g pork rinds, and a diet soda. The onion dip and the celery made it higher in carbs than I would normally eat.

I know it was heavy on the half n half. I usually limit the half n half to 2 TBSP. I have used heavy cream in the past, but I prefer the taste of half n half, and since, I am also limiting calories, heavy cream has a pretty hefty calorie count. I usually eat a smaller breakfast, because if I eat a large breakfast, it just seems to prime the hunger pump for the rest of the day.

If you tell me to give up all artificial sweeteners, I will tear my clothes and put ashes on my head.

(Patricia) #19

I was wondering how to eat pure fat. I love butter, so I’ll give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion.

By a whoosh, do you mean weight loss?

(Patricia) #20

Thanks for the kind words. I don’t plan on giving up keto, but it’s been a struggle lately.