If I loose 50lbs should I expect loose skin?

fasting
(Mike D) #22

My Rheumatologist told me, that a small percentage of individuals were able to send their AutoImmune diseases into complete remission by loosing all excess body fat and staying there. She said that fat creates a pro inflammatory environment that directly effects the progress of diseases like Rheumatoid Arthritis. The key is very very low body fat, how you look to other people is irrelevant.

The math is starting at 200lbs 30%bf, with 130lbs lean mass. Subtract 23%bf =-46lbs. 200lbs - 46fat =154lbs at 7%bf

I may even try to go down to 6%bf temporarily if it means resetting my raging immune system. For a man, only 6-7% body fat is required to make hormones and basic body functions. Anything below 6% on a man is considered counterproductive. I use to body build and train in boxing when I was in my 20s. I knew competitive male athletes that would temporarily go down to 4%bf for competition. They did not stay there long, but they said their health was fine as long as it was only temporary.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #23

The issue is not the loss of the fat, but the means used to accomplish it. Obesity does not cause immune problems or systemic inflammation; all three conditions are caused by hyperinsulinaemia, or insulin-resistance. Hyperinsulinaemia is known to interfere with the immune system, and it is also known to cause systemic inflammation. The mechanisms by which excessive insulin does this are pretty well understood. The point is that it is not the obesity that causes either the immune problems or the inflammation; rather, the obesity is, like the other two conditions, a symptom of the same underlying cause.

Furthermore, in the U.S., while 24% of the population is both obese and metabolically ill, 6% is obese and perfectly healthy. Doctors call them “MHO”—metabolically healthy obese. On the other hand, while 42% of the population is thin and healthy, 28% is thin but metabolically ill. Doctors call these people “TOFI”—thin on the outside, fat on the inside. Given the existence of MHO’s and TOFI’s, it is clear that obesity per se is not the problem. Note only that, but notice that the percentage of TOFI’s in the population is actually larger than the percentage of sick obese people. And yet, somehow, it is the fatties who attract all the attention, even though there are more skinnies with the same health problems.

(Mike D) #24

Does this mean that being placed on exogenous insulin by a doctor would likely further increase AutoImmune disease severity?

#25

Yes sadly one of my closest friends passed away over the summer from T2 after having multiple health issues since 2016 and being in and out of the hospital and on dialysis. She was 5’5 and never weighed over 130

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #26

I would certainly think so.

The problem is this: the two types of diabetes are lumped together because they were first described as problems of glucose control, but they are very different diseases. Our picture of them was shaped long before the discovery of insulin.

We know today that Type I diabetes is an autoimmune disease, which destroys the body’s ability to secrete insulin. Type II diabetes, on the other hand, is a problem of too much insulin. The high carb load of today’s diet forces the pancreas to make ever greater amounts of insulin, because cells can’t take the constant stimulus and download their insulin receptors in self-defence.

But because we still think of Type II as a problem of glucose control, instead of a problem of insulin resistance and hyperinsulinaemia, we give insulin as a treatment, when that is exactly wrong. The real way to reverse Type II diabetes is to lower insulin and to restore metabolic health by eliminating the stimulus (i.e., the high glucose load from eating too much carbohydrate) and giving the pancreas a break.

Does that make sense?

(Mike D) #27

So the longer I stay on Keto, theoretically my insulin response should improve over time and auto immune disease should improve in severity?

How long does this insulin change take to reach its fullest potential? I heard some people always have insulin problems after SAD. How much insulin improvement can I expect and how long will it take to reach its full potential reversal on Keto?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #28

That is completely individual and very hard to predict. It took most of us years to get sick, and the cure was not instantaneous, either. But most people’s bloodwork is noticeably improved by the six-month mark. How long it would take for a diagnosis of diabetes to be removed, I don’t know, but it does happen.

(Marianne) #29

Obviously, I am no doctor, and this is only my opinion (you know what they say about those!!! :laughing:), but I think there’s “fat” and then there’s “fat.” I think the body needs a little bit of fat, and it seems like 10-15% for men is not excessive - to me. Also, I think above anything, clean keto will reduce/eliminate inflammation and will also convert the actual fat one may have to be a more beneficial, accessible form. I think years of eating a SAD diet can make the fat that we come here with to be toxic and loaded with chemicals and unstable junk.

I hope you find what works best for you.

(Denise) #30

I read this lastnight Paul and recognized the info from I think other posts you’ve done. But this really sunk in for me and appreciate you sharing it again. I always get confused now when talking with others that have Type 2 that are on insulin. One lady that lives here honestly didn’t know what type of Diabetes she had but she was eating all she wanted because she had some sort of attachment that would release insulin when she needed it. That was early on near the time I was first diagnosed with T2.

What takes the longest seems to be for some doctors/scientists to be educated on truth/facts, and fighting big pharma off. If folks don’t take responsibility (atleast some) for their own health then they just become victims of their own making.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #31

The figures I saw were 10-12% body fat for men, and 21-23% for women. Women need more, of course, as a cushion for child-bearing.

(Denise) #32

Sounds about right for me anyway. Mine is at 21% though and still have a bit of belly (the last go I hear :wink: Main thing for me is to keep working on muscle so that I don’t look like toothpic, lol! I believe fat has it’s place, and it’s fave places:rofl:

(Marianne) #33

I’ll take it! I naturally prefer a thin physique, but IMO, men and women need to have some degree of fat to look good, otherwise, they can just look gaunt.

#34

I haven’t actually the vaguest idea what my body fat % is as I have no way to measure it (aside from those ‘look at these pictures and select the one that most resembles you’ things). From what I understand, those body composition scales you can get are a big no-no if you have a pacemaker. Are there other ways at all?

Saaaame xD Visually speaking, I can be confident that at least 80% of my total body fat is hanging out around my belly, hips, and the very tops of my thighs ; )

(Denise) #35

Hate to say it but that gaunt look is not for me so I plan to do more shaping up than losing more lbs. I was 140 and a little surprised I’m down to 113. I’m 5’2" small-boned, but more muscle than I ever had in my life since adding weight-training. That’s only in hopes of still being able to do some things I love like I’ve been talking to @Fangs about :wink:

#36

This is an interesting observation by someone who has way more experience observing people with autoimmune disease than any of us. I have also been suspecting (hoping?) I might be able to at least lower my inflammatory pain with weight loss. I am not overweight but could easily lose ten pounds. I lost ten pounds on keto the first 8 months but they came back. I felt better when the weight was down. After 2.5 years, I can attest that my pain is poorly controlled by a keto diet alone. On the other hand, my rare bouts of high carb (with always healthy choices) clearly make my pain worse.

My rheumatological joint pain comes from a chronic Lyme infection and not any metabolic disorder. I would add that nowadays it is thought that many autoimmune conditions have infectious disease etiology which is really hard to address. Maybe not too unlike long COVID.

#37

No way to tell, that’s very individual, hydration levels, overall skin health, protein intake etc all have an effect. If your skin as a whole isn’t healthy, it’s more likely. Smoking destroys skin from the inside out if you do.

I’m your age and height, better question, why do you want to be 150lbs? I’ve been 300lbs at one point, no loose skin. That said, My stomach is (almost) flat, I’m a little over 13%BF right now (crappy news this morning) at 220lbs. I can see my abs, not crazy defined, but you can see they’re there. I’m thinking around 10% should do it for me, they were completely visible last time I was at 10%, not sure the look you’re going for, but 150lbs for our height will look like you’re wasting away on death’s doorstep. At 150lbs on a 5’10" that’s pretty much skin pulled over skeleton, without some muscle behind it you have a way better chance of lose skin.

#38

THIS!!! So much this. The obesity is a symptom of the metabolic derangement/systemic inflammation, and hence the correlation which is being noted between body fat and inflammation - but the fat didn’t create that pro-inflammatory environment!

#39

Indeed…and to finish this good Gary Taubes-ian observation, the “underlying cause” is most often dysregulated (excess) insulin.

#40

One more thought on this, I clearly remember my “aha” moment in figuring out why low carb/keto works and the role of insulin. He wrote something like “you’re not fat because you’re hungry, you’re hungry because you’re fat. Oh, and if you exercise a lot while you’re fat, you’ll get even more hungry and eat more.” Right then I stopped exercising, went low carb and lost 40 lbs, keeping it mostly off in the years since I read that passage in Good Calories/Bad Calories. I’ve since picked up more natural movement/walking type exercise, no longer spending 45-60 minutes on the treadmill.

(Robin) #42

I don’t really exercise, per se. I use a rowing machine, at an easy clip. I don’t break a sweat. But I keep all my joints agile. And walking my old Bob-zippy dog mostly just gets me out and about.
But I believe us older folks need to make an effort to keep both flexible and strong.
My mom was teensy and didn’t have the strength to get herself off the floor. That won’t be me if I can help it.

I guess what I’m saying is there are different levels of working out and exercise. And different reasons.