If an otherwise healthy keto individual gets Coronavirus, would increasing dietary carbs be beneficial to them?

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #21

It is not necessary for humans to ingest carbohydrates to stay alive and be in good health.

No fats. You die.

No proteins. You die.

No carbohydrates… Meh…

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #22

And the worms eat us and bacteria eat them and plants absorb nutrients from the bacteria and convert sunlight and CO2 to carbs and… animals eat the plants and we eat the animals, and the cycle of life continues. Ain’t it grand?

We don’t have to eat plants if we eat the animals that do the grunt work of converting cellulose and those other minor constituent carbs of plants into nutritious food for us.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #23

Neither do plants have to eat us. Bacteria do the grunt work for them.

And ultimately, of course, matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Just changed. So we are all (bacteria, plants, animals, us… and whoever else might be out there somewhere) recycling the same matter and energy.

('Jackie P') #24

I’m seriously hoping that if I do contract the virus I am healthy enough to fight it. But your advice will be in my mind and I will heed it if I feel it will help me.

(Bunny) #25

You seem to be the only one suggesting that notion?

On the other hand it would be accurate to say:

Dietary sugars is not required to sustain human life.

Rather than “there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate?“

Essential nutrients are required to sustain human life, period! …And the root source of those essential nutrients are within those carbohydrates whether it be from the animal you eat who eats plants or the plant itself!

(Bunny) #26

I never said anything about them not being required or essential.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #27

Sugar a false distinction. All carbohydrates are sugar, some are just sweeter than others. You are correct, we do not need to consume dietary sugars. Gluconeogenesis makes all the glucose we need. A more useful distinction is that the more any particular carbohydrate molecule resembles cellulose the slower it metabolizes and the less pronounced the rise and degree of effect on glucose and insulin. The more it resembles glucose the faster and more pronounced. In the overall scheme of things slow and low is better than fast and high.

Carbohydrates do not contain any essential nutrients. They are just molecules of fuel. Foods that contain carbohydrates may also contain essential vitamins and minerals. Those specific nutrients are only associated incidentally with carbohydrates, which are again: sugar molecules. Period. Stop.

(Joey) #28

@atomicspacebunny I certainly respect your personal experience (and am not shocked to learn that when you were ill your fasting helped you).

And even though our respective “n=1” experiences are fraught with specifics (i.e., unique conditions, hard to replicate, transfer to others, etc.) they can certainly be instructive.

And so, if you ever do wind up catching a nasty viral flu (no jinx intended!) and you do choose to medicate yourself with carbs, would you please share how it turns out? This will help us all live and learn.

Meanwhile… “Here’s to our collective good health!” :crossed_fingers:

(JJ) #29

I had sepsis from a bacterial pneumonia 3 years ago, I had zero appetite the day before I lost consciousness and was hospitalized.This was pre keto ,so for me not to want to eat was significant. No food passed my lips for a further 6 days. I didn’t even actually have any oral fluids either, my electrolytes and fluid balance was totally via IV. I did lose a crap tonne of weight, but I was obviously deep in ketosis during this time. MY BGL was only checked twice that I can see from reading over my notes and my serum ketones not checked at all, I think they were too busy worrying about my increasing 02 requirements and ridiculously high CRP. I have also had a decent bacterial infection due to strep x 2 in my adult life and same deal, no appetite.
So in my own case, a bacterial infection seems to signal to my body to stop eating. Whether that is because ketosis is helpful, or simply as my body cannot concentrate on too many functions at once so dumps the burden of having to digest food- I cannot say.

It is interesting for sure to consider what role nutrition will play in helping combat the effects of a viral COVID19, I will just follow my body’s lead on this one and not be of a fixed mind set regarding the way I feed it.

(Ian) #30

I thought the fact that carbohydrates were not considered to be essential was well known. As opposed to fats and proteins which are essential.

“The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed”.

Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids, Institute of Medicine, Food and Nutrition Board, Panel on Macronutrients, 2005.

This in turn also suggests that there is no need for dietary fiber.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #31

It should be well known in our circle.
However I’m not surprised that the general public is not aware of this, based on the sham nutritional advice the establishment has been pushing for the last 50 years…

The topic has come up on another forum I frequent, that is supposed to have a lot of scientifically educated people on it, and I have had to point a few of them toward the evidence regarding this subject.

(Bunny) #32

Notice it is talking about “sugars and starches” (non-resistant dietary starches) and that’s the problem with Bro-science such minor details get thrown out into a facade that all carbohydrates are plants because of a slight misinterpretation. And then you get a bunch of pseudo-bro-scientists who think they are educating everyone…lol

Carbohydrates mean sugar and starches and maybe even fiber.

Now if you think about it the sugar cane and beet industry would want it defined as a “carbohydrate” rather than flat out say it is “sugar”, then the bro-scientists come along re-interpret it as “…all plants are bad…” so everyone starts making mental associations that are not based on sound science but rather hysteria (extrapolations, glittering generalities etc.)

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #33

Nobody here has put forth that claim?

Why do you feel it necessary to make stuff up?

(Bunny) #34

That is what you are trying to say or you are in denial?

It is one or the other?

What do you want people to believe?

The message I’m getting from you is clear (“…only eat meat and fat, all plants are bad…”) so help me clear it up?

Keep in mind I’m not prey as well as others for the carnivore agenda?

#35

@JulesyMcJulesface
your IV had glucose in it.

#36

should I contract the corona virus and feel like shit with a 39.5 fever- I think I won’t be concerned with ketosis and just eat anything that will tide me over- like the dark chocolate I have in the fridge made with real sugar. I am guessing I will definitely up my carbs just to get through the ordeal. I will resume ketosis if I survive…

(Full Metal KETO AF) #37

The Corona Virus issue seems to have gotten lost in an Essential Carb vs. Carnivore argument! Gotta love the forum! :laughing::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::stuck_out_tongue::heart::heart::heart::heart::cowboy_hat_face:

(Ian) #38

I’m sorry I do not understand what you are trying to imply?

Do you believe the the people who established the Dietary Reference Intakes were pseudo-bro-scientists, or were you referring to me?

Yes the document refers to carbohydrates as sugars and starches. Soluble and insoluble fiber are also carbohydrates, but they are not absorbed by the body and therefore provide no nutrition. However, the panel specifically used the term sugars (in the plural) because this also encompasses sugar alcohols, monosaccharides, disaccharides, oligosaccharides and polysaccharides. Glycogen and starch are examples of polysaccharides. Therefore, are you trying to imply that there are some other carbohydrates that are not encompassed by the term sugars and starches?

I was just making the case that carbohydrates were not essential. Do you disagree with this common understanding? If yes I would be interested in seeing your information sources.

Also I did not say all plants are bad. I do believe that most plants in the world are indeed bad. There are a few plants (relative to the total number of different plant species in the world) that have been purposely breed over the last 12,000 years, not to be bad, however that does not necessarily mean they are required to sustain life.

Therefore, where in my post was the miss-interpretation or hysteria?

PS I am not a carnivore and love my brussel sprouts because they taste great!

(Ian) #39

Sorry to have de-railed the thread.

My personal belief, based on various, disparate and non-specific sources of information is that consuming carbs, as someone who was in ketosis, would be detrimental if they contracted the Coronavirus.

This is based on my lay (probably overly simplistic) understanding that inflammation caused by the infection causes a kinase cascade and that ketones tend to dampen inflammatory responses, whereas carbohydrates tend to exacerbate inflammation.

(Bunny) #40

Sugar, starches, fiber is not essential, again there are essential nutrients within carbohydrates if you subtract the sugars.

You have to make the distinction about the substance being defined as bad or not required and the compounds being defined as essential.

Human beings are appropriately classified as Omni-vores, you are not a carnivore in the sense of an animal who has a highly acidic gastrointestinal lumen for cooking raw meat right in the digestive tract.