I want to be vegan but I'm trapped in a human body

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(Scott) #41

If vegan or vegetarians want to do their thing that’s fine. I think it is very difficult to get a proper balance of nutrition but it is their success or failure to make. Now when they start to impose that on me or try to encourage banning meat I push back and say “We are at the top of the food chain, deal with it!”

(Susan) #42

I just call myself a Keto woman, all these other terms are way too complicated for me, hahaha.

(Allie) #43

I’ll just keep on being me, not a fan of labels or of other people trying to put me in boxes.

(Susan) #44

Hehe for sure, Allie =). I don’t actually go around calling myself a Keto woman --I was just meaning I am not any of the other labels =).

I find it all too complicated is all. I tell people I am randomly meeting that I am either doing Keto or doing no sugar/low carb, depending who I am telling =). I have never said I am a Keto woman… it was just me trying to make it all more simple =).

You are spot on though, Allie. (Although I still think of you as a lady Dr. Dolittle that can talk to the animals!).

(Allie) #45

I’m getting visions of that gorgeous smiley face of yours and you dressed in a super hero costume with a big K on the front and a flowing purple sparkly cape :rofl:

(Susan) #46

Hehehehe =).

(Scott) #47

I look down at my watch and say today I am keto but tomorrow I am low carb just to mess with them.

(Randy) #48

The scary thing is how much influence the plant based people have had on public policy and medicine with no real science to back it up.

#49

And the evidence of recent observation is that they have influence in social media as well with blocking and hiding online information that does not follow the mainstream plant based diet riptide. So many low carb information sources being impacted.

If we can’t beat them, join them?

#50

Nope, if we can’t beat them, we let them be and KCKO :wink:

I loved aristocats…because the cat’s the only cat who knoooooows where its at :slight_smile: “basted? He’s been marinated!” :joy: creme de la creme a la edgar :slight_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #51

First of all, the robes aren’t coloured, they’re white. And we only wear them at the rituals. Have you been getting the notices of time and place?

And remember—never speak of the mothership!! :grin::grin::grin:

(Randy) #52

The first rule of Keto Club is never talk about Keto Club. :smile:

#53

Rather than individual plants that need our guardianship, why not grow a system of integrated inputs and aspects? Permaculture is biomimicry. We encourage predators to regulate the plant eaters. We companion plant and create zones, and sometimes implement barriers. We include ourselves in the system, at most a steward, never a CEO.

Could we then apply these thoughts to gardening ourselves, being a steward over our biome? Not take to eating like a wilful CEO, but as a being and a complex biological universe both, that requires, knowledge, care and balancing to create bountiful life.

I guess that is what nutritional ketosis could be as compared to the forced, non-nutritional ideology, applied to eating in the in extremis examples of carnivory and veganism.

(Bob M) #54

I think an integrated system is a possibility. There are farmers where they grow plants and raise animals, where the animals are used to protect and help the plants. There is a symbiosis between ruminants and grass, for instance. Ducks and chickens can be used to go through plant fields and eat insects and therefore help the plants.

I was just remarking, though, that if your (edited from “you’re” to “your”) argument is mainly about killing animals, you really can’t do anything without killing an animal.

(Jennibc) #55

They will keep it up for a while and then when their health starts to decline, the wise ones will realize their folly.

#56

Yep, that’s why I seriously dislike and pity those loud annoying vegans who think (and write all the time) that they are practically saints and never harm an animal. It’s clearly impossible, they are just very ignorant.
And non-vegan vegetarians eat in a way that directly causes the deaths of lots of cattle and poultry even if they avoid animal cruelty using the best sources, things work this way.
I like the okay vegans and vegetarians, I used a lot of their recipes on keto this far, I even agree with certain things (I am VERY much against animal cruelty and I can understand plants on a field feed more mouths than the meat of the animal that eats exactly that plant matter humans would eat. The animals I use eat a lot of plants I couldn’t use but frankly, I am selfish too. I want good food even if it’s impossible for every human of the planet)… But the load, aggressive, ignorant ones are horrible.

I loved my vegetarian years, they were very nice (full with fat and animal protein, I was an ovo-lacto vegetarian) and I ate no more chicken, it was a relief :slight_smile: Except I still ate lots of carbs as I realized later. I changed that without adding meat and things got even better. I just couldn’t do it forever, my body has different ideas, I like to try things and further improve my diet and I always loved good meat, not like it is important if I have principles and lots of other great nutritious food. But eliminating too many food groups still can be a problem. And I eliminate the ones that hurt me if I have a choice, I am selfish as I already mentioned (and it would be the worst to sacrifice myself just because maybe it’s the noble way. If I clearly feel better, at least I am sure I must do something right).
My principles changed little but I never had very deep problems with killing (be it animal or plant or something else. I don’t like killing but I like dying even less), we live on this planet, not in a dreamworld and we are omnivores. Very flexible omnivores, we can survive on plants only and on animals only if we are healthy enough but it’s understandable we want better than mere survival.

I doubt I will be ever against veganism. I am against stupidity, ignorance, hatefulness, forcefulness, closed-mindedness and fake “facts”. The person with these may be vegan, ketoer, paleoer, carnivore… It’s still bad.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #57

I am not against veganism. People can eat dirt for all I care. I’m against people being jerks and acting superior and nagging. Unfortunately sometimes veganism is synonymous those things, which is a real shame because I think their heart is in the right place.

#58

Your whole post was wonderful @Shinita

#59

Hope you haven’t stitched the initials from ‘Keep Kalm and Keto’ onto your white robes or we might have a big problem. :smiley:

(Bunny) #60

Contrary to research in the past, the human body probably can manufacture B-12 if you have the right gut bugs[3] and dietary trace element cobalt [4] to do it?

Enough bile salt[6] from the gallbladder to breakdown a fat soluble form (animal sources) of B-12? If you do not eat enough fat, you won’t produce very much bile[5]!

References:

[1] In situ fortification of vitamin B12 in wheat flour and wheat bran by fermentation with *Propionibacterium freudenreichii*

[2] “…Propionibacterium freudenreichii is a beneficial bacterium with documented effects on the gut microbiota and on inflammation. Its presence within the animal and human intestinal microbiota was correlated with immunomodulatory effects, mediated by both propionibacterial surface components and by secreted metabolites. …” …More

[3] “…Vitamin B12 and gut bacteria: can humans produce their own vitamin B12 supply in the gut? If so, which bacteria in the intestines can create it?..” “… In animals, this has been recognised for much longer: ruminants have a special compartment in their stomach, known as the rumen, in which bacteria can produce B12. This is why cows only need a sufficient dietary supply of the trace element cobalt, which bacteria require for B12 synthesis, in order to produce their own supply of the vitamin (7). …” …More

[4] “…Cobalt is a key component of vitamin B12, and is required for the synthesis of hemoglobin. Good food sources of cobalt include fish, nuts, leafy green vegetables, such as broccoli and spinach, and cereals, including oats. …” …More

[5] “… Vitamin B12 functions metabolically in two coenzyme forms, adenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin, which function in the metabolism of propionate, amino acids, and single carbon. Physiologically, vitamin B12 functions in the regulation of homocysteine, hematological development, and the nervous system. The primary cause of vitamin B12deficiency is the consumption of strict vegetarian diets, signs include megaloblastic anemia and neurologic symptoms such as symmetrical paresthesia of the hands and feet. …” …More

[6] “… The aim of present study is to examine the possibilities of isolating effective Propionibacterium freudenreichii subsp. shermanii to use as a probiotic to combat vitamin B 12 deficiency. The strains were isolated and identified by biochemical and molecular (16s rRNA) methods. The tolerance of selected isolate, P. freudenreichii subsps. shermanii (OLP5) to low pH, high bile concentration and production of vitamin B 12 were assessed. Quantitative studies of vitamin B 12 production in the presence of bile salts were also carried out. It was observed that P. freudenreichii subsps. shermanii (OLP5) could tolerate extreme conditions viz. bile salts (1.0 g/l), acidic pH (2.0). A maximum of 14.7 mg/L of vitamin B 12 was produced under optimal conditions. Extracellular vitamin B 12 was found to be increased (0 to 0.3 mg/L) concurrently with bile salt concentration. Current studies indicate the survival of P. freudenreichii subsps shermanii (OLP5) in extreme conditions and production of significant amounts of extracellular Vitamin B 12. The effective utilization of this strain can be used as an agent to overcome vitamin B 12 deficiency. In addition, this would eventually benefit to exert the other important therapeutic applications. To the best of our knowledge we have reported first time, the relation between bile salts concentration and vitamin B 12 production. …” …More

[7] “…Vitamin B12 supplements are typically derived from two sources: cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin. Both are nearly identical and contain a cobalt ion surrounded by a corrin ring. However, each have a different molecule attached to the cobalt ion. While methylcobalamin contains a methyl group, cyanocobalamin contains a cyanide molecule. Cyanocobalamin is a synthetic form of vitamin B12 that is not found in nature (3Trusted Source). It’s used more frequently in supplements, as it’s considered more stable and cost-effective than other forms of vitamin B12. When cyanocobalamin enters your body, it’s converted into either methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin, which are the two active forms of vitamin B12 in humans (4). Unlike cyanocobalamin, methylcobalamin is a naturally occurring form of vitamin B12 that can be obtained through supplements, as well as food sources like fish, meat, eggs and milk. …” …More

[8] Fermentation in the rumen and human large intestine