I think the P:E ratio is going to be my ticket!

(Jane Srygley) #1

I heard about the P:E book in a Carnivore Facebook group. I had heard Ted Naiman’s name bantered around, of course… so I just listened to a youtube video where he explains the P:E ratio and how protein is very satiating. He also talks about how eating too much fat isn’t a great thing for people who are very insulin resistant. This makes sense for me because as I have stated in my own accountability (Jane’s Adventures In Food) thread, satiety has been hard for me to achieve. Any really high fat, low protein food simply does not satisfy me. I will eat a LOT of it–way more calories of that food than I would of something high in protein, like ground beef… and I still won’t feel full.

I searched and found this P:E calculator online:

And here is the YouTube video posted 2/14/20:

#2

I’m testing Naiman’s P:E ratio, I believe(d) that fat satiated me more than protein.
I don’t always reach 160g of protein, but I do stick to fats+carbs under 160g. I think less fat feels easier on my digestion, I don’t feel so full.
I’ll see what higher fat feels like when I switch back, it will be easiest to compare.

#3

I wonder what the PKD people think about it :slight_smile:

I can relate, I need much protein to get satiated myself. Fat doesn’t help if I am hungry and my protein intake is pretty high sometimes.
But I need lots of calories too so I eat more, sometimes way more fat and it’s fine.
My P:E ratio says not much. It can’t say if I ate too much protein (and I don’t use this lightly, I don’t bat an eye if I go over 2g/kg and I surely need way less. but I easily eat way over it with a small P:E ratio and I don’t even have a huge energy need where a small P:E ratio would be advisable!)

There are the people who must be very careful with their protein intake and they prefer it quite low. From my viewpoint, at least. But they need their energy too so their P:E is small and even more so if their energy need is high. But if it’s not true, I can do the same ratios, just with more calories. My protein will be a bit too high for me and they will have their ideally low one.
I don’t know about others but protein percentage doesn’t satiate me. I need enough protein in grams. And calories. And there are more but percentages? They just happen, we can’t predict my satiation from them. I wouldn’t be satiated eating some egg whites or chicken. Okay, I would lose fat like crazy, and muscle muss and my will to live… It’s not needed. We shouldn’t live on protein (and get rabbit starvation syndrome if we do it really well). And we often can afford very much fat compared to protein. We are ketoers here, some of us can get away with more calories, others badly need eating just enough protein… People who get satiated only with high protein and have a tiny calorie limit, they should have a high P:E ratio, indeed. But many people are different.

I got carried away too much again… But that “fat gain” text for smaller P:E ratios upset me. I still can’t handle such things well enough, it seems.

(Bob M) #4

I found higher protein to be more enjoyable and led to more satiety than Jimmy Moore’s high fat keto.

Having said that, the problem with “fat” is you have to clarify what you mean. If you’re on a keto diet and eating dark meat chicken with skin, bacon, avocados, tons of nuts, mayo with avocado oil, you’re on a high PUFA diet. If you’re eating chunks of beef fat and beef (like PKD), you’re on a low PUFA, high stearic acid diet. The latter is better than the former in my opinion.

I personally have moved from P:E to high saturated fat (stearic acid) and lean meats. I try to avoid all PUFAs, so no nuts, little to no bacon, low amounts of chicken, no avocados or oil (not a big deal, as I don’t like avocados), more cacao butter, more high fat dairy. I get better satiety doing this than doing P:E.

#5

We talk about satiation in carnivore topics sometimes. I want to experiment with meat fat (not rendered/added), it’s more satiating for some, possibly even for me. I know added fat and very fatty dairy don’t satiate me well, it just raise my calories if I am not careful. A very fatty piece of meat is something else but I have very little data about it at this point. But it seems to be quite satiating. So the type of fat may matter a lot, it surely do for some people.

#6

I haven’t paid any attention to protein ratios. I eat a lot of protein when I eat, usually with it’s own fat. I don’t add much other fats. That’s pretty carnivore from what I see here, except that I do eat avocados, various veggies and occasionally nuts. And chaffles, can’t forget chaffles. I also eat soft or hard boiled eggs as snacks. I try to stay away from processed meats since I found out that every one of them contains sugar. I try to eat zero sugar. I am doing well, feeling great, getting healthy, losing weight, feeling satiated and losing a lot of weight I need to lose. I won’t change unless things take a turn for the worse.

(Bunny) #7

I can understand why Weight Watchers and Dash diets get the highest ratings is because they work very very long-term from a maintenance and not starving yourself to metabolic death perspective of practicality.

Some people just do not have the patients to do a ketogenic diet and/or they would be fasting too much and would probably ruin there metabolism anyway if they were not careful from a weight loss perspective.

I do think a Weight Watchers diet would be perfect for a ketogenic weight loss maintenance.

It is very very rare to see a person actually keep the fat weight off after utilizing extreme fasting and caloric restriction for long periods of time.

I know people don’t like hearing that but emotions get you nowhere fast; it is the real cross-validated empirical science that matters, not the bro-science paradoxes and placebos.

#8

My diet consists of 4-5 eggs with 20g of butter, 300g of meat (95% beef of all cuts (the rest is chicken breast and pork tenderloin, I avoid PUFAs)) and mixed green lettuce/cabbage/mushrooms. I know that this isn’t completely “high P:E,” due to yolks and some cuts of beef are fattier, but this combination suits me well lately. My hair is growing, my monthly cycle is regular, my weight is stable…
I think I will do about a month more of this, then I’ll try going back to keto rations with moderate protein and higher fat. Now I have, on average, about 130g of protein, 80g of fat and and 30g total carbs.

#9

Maybe I’m the exception here, but too much protein, especially protein by itself, causes a terrible blood sugar rise and crash. It’s happened too many times for it to be coincidence so now I’m actually afraid of protein. A handful of nuts or a chicken leg by itself always does terrible things to me.
Sue

#10

Just a guess… Nuts are also high in carbs…could it be like Bikman said in one if his videos - protein causes a small spike, protein+carbs causes a very significant spike?

#11

Everything all around has been better for me since upping my protein.

(Karen) #12

If you have fat on your body I don’t think rabbit starvation is a concern. Am I wrong?

(bulkbiker) #13

Bunny WW is a repeat business model for the very reason that it doesn’t work long term.
Caloric restriction rarely leads to prolonged maintained weight loss… I’m stunned to hear you supporting such dross.

(bulkbiker) #14

I think you need to define “high” and which nuts you are talking about as there is a fair bit of variety in carb content…?

(Doug) #15

I believe it was Jenny Craig, using its own figures on its own customers, that came up with a 0.5% success rate in losing weight and maintaining it for 2 years afterwards.

(Bunny) #16

People simply eat too much and at the wrong time (to often) because they think they need to eat three meals a day? If that was not the reality, we would not need any kind of dieting system (food rationing) like in England during both Wars (food rationing) diabetes stats dropped and longevity proceeded?

Fung pointed that out a long time ago and it really sticks in my head, and when I ponder on it more, it makes too much sense?

People never use to eat like that or sleep in 8 hour cycles (they slept in 4) like they do now?

(bulkbiker) #17

Very true however WW is rarely the solution… so to see you advocating eating meals and snacks (as they do) is a little odd… no?