I See Fat People

(Arlene) #21

Keto Cowboy, I love your post. It has taken me years to change my eating habits off the “sugar drip”, as you call it, and even now I still have occasional sugar “bliss” temptations. It is a continual battle that has gotten much easier over time, but never goes away entirely, mostly because these sugary carb foods are everywhere, all the time. Add to that the purposeful confusion created by the media, and even your trusted MD; it really is miraculous any of us have found our way out.
I have a friend in his early 40’s who can barely walk, having had several back surgeries because of inflammation and arthritis. He is in constant great pain. When I mention that avoiding sugar and other carb products could relieve his pain considerably, I am told he just can’t go a day without his mountain dew soda. We hear all about the “war on drugs”. What a joke. The war should be on the food and drug industry; a MUCH greater enemy.

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #22

It’s exactly like trying to tell an active alcoholic that the benefits they see in your life are the result of getting sober. They aren’t going to hear you, no matter what. They can’t even comprehend the damage that their chosen way of life is doing to them.

I speak from experience, because it took me nearly twenty-five years from getting sober to acknowledging my sugar/carb addiction, and I couldn’t have listened any sooner than I did. I look back on my attitudes during my drinking days and am amazed that I could ever have thought that way, but the journey is the journey and I couldn’t have reached this destination any sooner. Before stopping drinking, I hated the idea that I might be powerless over alcohol, but that admission was the key to being able to receive all the blessings that came after.

The first thing that started getting through my denial about my eating was Dr. Attia’s very moving TED talk, and then I came across Dr. Lustig’s lecture, “Sugar: The Bitter Truth.” I doubt even those two videos would have penetrated if I hadn’t been getting so frustrated about my weight and fearful about my risk for metabolic syndrome. So people have to be ready before they can even acknowledge the message, and there’s no real way to shortcut the process, alas.

(Doug) #23

Indeed. Things seem pretty clear to me, after a whole five months. Prior to that, there was 50+ years going the other way.

(Ketopia Court Jester) #24

I thought about this topic last night. It’s actually not the adipose tissue out there that’s suddenly on my radar these days, it’s all the sugar.

I believe one of the most potent Non-Scale Victories of going keto is the sharpened sugar goggles. It’s like finally cleaning layers of dirt and grime off your car windshield and remarking, “Wow! Look at the detail out there! I’m driving so much better!”

This question has been at the back of my mind for a while now but a fellow blogger’s post really drove it home when they lamented the seasonal, heroin-like pull of family sized bags of mini Snickers and pumpkin spice everything:

Has America ever celebrated anything without glittering white mountains of sugar?

Go ahead, name a nationally observed holiday that doesn’t have some traditional dessert item emotionally attached to it. Hell, even the military holidays and the Fourth of July conjure images of picnic tables piled high with Jell-O molds and watermelon slices. Now, that’s marketing.

(Mark Rhodes) #25

Many just do not believe in any form of evolution and stop right there.

And if our doctors can be so easily fooled into thinking fat is the culprit than why should any person believe that the factory worker deciphered the problem? This requires a cultural revolution that begins with understanding that science does not create immutable facts, only plausible “truths” until a better explanation can explain the issue.

(Brian) #26

Yup. I see a lot of fat and sick people around me, too. I was one of 'em. (I think I’m getting better, though.)

To some extent, I understand. People around them, and people of very good intentions, people of authority, and people who have lots of letters behind their names, have been telling them all of the wrong things for decades. A few of them may have some truth in their messages but overall, there is a LOT of the teachings that many have put their faith into that are just wrong. I’ve been there. It can be devastating to your mind when you feel like everything you’ve been taught since you were but a wee lad needs to be questioned. And if what they’re telling you about food is wrong, what else have they told you that’s wrong?

When a person gets to such a place in life, they may not be able to cope with the idea that so much of what they thought was reality is so very screwed up that it’s little more than a fantasy world. And when that happens, sometimes the fantasy is more real to them than any truth they may have skirted up against and just can’t process.

I feel bad for them. But I hope that at some point, there will be some who will give the opportunity for me and others of like mind to tell them that there is another way. I’m looking forward to the day when I can say, “I did it. Let me tell you how.”

(Bob ) #27

I’ve watched my older brother fight Type 2 for decades. He has neuropathy and other diabetic complications, takes a couple of injectables and I think he’s still on Metformin. The thing is, he taught me about Atkins 40 years ago and he still won’t stay on it. I just don’t get why. I know his doctors aren’t up on keto, but he won’t listen.

My mom had T2 for as far back as I can remember, and had complications, too. Knowing I had the genes for diabetes, I vowed to fight it off and have been fighting it off for at least 10 years.

(Jim Russell) #28

Absolutely. And they use the fact that science sometimes admits that it was totally wrong about something to justify not believing in anything that makes them uncomfortable. “If it was wrong about X, then how can I trust it about Y and Z?”

There is a story about a science professor beginning the first lecture of his class by saying something like “In twenty years we will have found that half of what we know now is false. The problem is, we don’t know which half.”


Do they take the red pill or the blue pill? Its much easier to take the blue pill and go back to your bed.

One thing I learned since Keto is that studies do not say what they claim they say and you have to read the entire study beyond the abstract.

The problem is so many people are trained to listen to authorities and do not even read the studies at all. I have listened and watched so many podcasts and videos by Keto/LC doctors who start by saying " I treat diabetics, obese or kidney patients and for years my patients would come and say, I followed the food pyramid, I exercise X number of hours a week and never eat more than 1500 calories or whatever you have told me and my diabetes (or whatever) is still bad." The doctor would say he doubted his patients because how can they gain on 1200 or 1500 or whatever. Then he (they are usually male) had the epiphany about LC and so on and now he is a keto rockstar. The point being he was trained in convention and inflicted that on his patients, thinking he was helping them. Until keto becomes part of the standard of care, nothing will change

I have a friend in desperate straits. She has the best conventional care money can buy (on diability from a union) she is in her 50s, a T2 TOFI on dialysis and has lost body parts already. For the last two months I have been trying to get her to keto but she does not have a continuous glucose monitor and she tends to crash when her BG gets below 100. She is gradually eliminating all white starches but it is not doing much. She is one of the smartest people I know but she has been following her doctors’ instructions. Her BG yesterday hours after eating was 231.

I visited her in the hospital yesterday. She was being given waffles as her meal (another discussion), and we spoke. I would love to take her to Bernstein but she is too disabled to get there. The reason is because she would believe him. She just does not believe me. I don’t blame her. I have been on a million diets in the 30 plus years that I have known her. I have lost a substantial amount on keto but I have lost on other diets over the years. I have no medical training and while I visit a few times a month, I am not there day to day to take care of her. Plus most of the experts we listen to such as Fung, are talking about T2 in the context of obesity. She has never even been overweight but she has been a carb grazer her whole life. I believe she thinks this may work for me because I have been overweight, she does not believe it will work for her and without a continuous glucose monitor there is risk to her trying this while on medication and she is on many medications. She is too medically fragile to do anything without a doctor’s supervision. If anyone has suggestions as to how to help her or of a website or expert that specializes in TOFIs, please let me know.

Meanwhile conventional medicine is killing her

I really believe it is not sugar addiction but sugar apathy by the medical community and plain bad advice

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #30

I believe it was Richard Feynman, the physicist.

(Arlene) #31

Ah yes. Like the subject of cholesterol, and countless other medical erred thinking. I don’t mind the erred thinking, as it’s part of the process of seeking knowledge. What I mind is continuing to promote bad science as though it’s valid, even after current science has invalidated it. Health care should always be about finding the best ways to keep the people healthy. Money and political power should not be a part of this, but because it is we are stuck with a system of “cover your butt” lies that insure continued profits; even at the cost of many human lives. Truly tragic.


Absolutely true


HI Sapphire, I also use the diabetes.co.uk forum and one of the guys on there has been doing a version of the Newcastle diet which is a very low cal, low carb diet. He was on lots of meds and was about to be put on insulin. He stopped taking all his meds and has been posting his results online over the last 2 months or so. His blood glucose readings are brilliant.


that’s a link to the diet, obviously noone should just stop their meds without seeking medical advice (even though medical advice often seems to be out of date) but in the poster’s case, he was treating himself as a guinea pig after reading up on a lot of studies that show this diet works miracles. I think it’s just a springboard into ketosis really. Hope this is helpful for your friend :slight_smile:


Thank you. I will look into it @chaosmaker


I took a quick look. Is the person a TOFI? My friend has a BMI of 20, she is a TOFI but a really skinny one. She has always been. When I show her studies involving people with BMIs over 25 she immediately thinks it does not apply to her. Would love to find her TOFI research. I do appreciate the suggestion


Michael Moseley who adapted the blood sugar diet from the newcastle diet is a TOFI and also trained as a GP so was fairly shocked when he was diagnosed as type 2 diabetic as the mythology goes that it’s a fat person’s disease… On the blood sugar diet forum there are all sorts of people, TOFI’s included and others that also have Hashimoto’s (a thyroid condition) so there is a broad range of experience there, and it’s a really friendly forum to join and ask questions of… Good luck again

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #36

This thread has made me acutely aware of my reactions to people’s appearance. Guys I would have been attracted to, a couple of months ago, are now looking overweight to me, and I find myself thinking along the lines of “Cute, but would look even better if he went keto,” lol! (Yes, it’s deplorably superficial of me, but I’m not attracted to guys as fat as I still am.)

I notice women, too, but of course it’s more along the lines of, “Boy, for her sake, I really hope she learns about keto!”

Of course, it’s entirely possible that many of these people have discovered keto, but there’s no way to tell if you don’t know where they started from. No one has noticed yet that I have dropped fifty pounds, because it came off my arms, legs, and butt, and my belly looks as big as ever (my waistline has indeed shrunk, but it’s not obvious to others, yet).

(Edith) #37

The thing I’ve noticed as I have learned more about type 2 diabetes and metabolic disease is how many people carry extra weight around their middles even though they may not be that over weight. I was heading in the same direction: I was counting my calories, exercising almost every day, and I still developed a paunch. I think all of us middle aged people, especially, would benefit from the keto diet.


(Brian) #38

That’s something that came to my attention not that long ago, too, Edith. A fairly thin / healthy looking person can still have issues with visceral fat and fatty liver disease and end up with a lot of the same issues that a morbidly obese person might have. While weight does have it’s importance, there are other factors that are, I believe, even more important.


(Stephanie Tebbs) #39

I’m having a hard time not lecturing everyone around me about keto. Most of my coworkers are overweight and I see them try fad diets once a month (usually lasting a few days before donuts are brought in). I see them eat a fruit salad for lunch and brag about how they are eating healthy. I just want to scream and press my newfound knowledge but I know it won’t do any good. I try to keep my keto books out in public in hopes someone will be curious and ask.

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #40

Not only us, but even children, these days. I saw two pudgy boys pushing their bikes up a hill this afternoon. Before keto, I’d have considered them normal, but now . . . .