I Don't Know if I'm Doin' This Right


(J) #1

Sure, my Ketones are at a good measure, my blood sugar is strangely low, but I dunno if I’m doin’ this correctly.

I have gotten to the point where I only eat once a day, and it wasn’t forced. It just “took.” However, I am noticing that I’m weak before I am hungry, then when it’s time to eat, I feel like I have to get a certain amount of food in, but I am just not hungry enough, and I feel “BLEH” afterward. Avocado only goes so far. I am a bit tired of lettuce/spinach, okra, and greens. Protein is not an issue. I’m fine with chicken, beef, etc. I get a bit weary thinking “How will I get the proper portion of fat & veggies in today?”

What have any of you done, if anything, to battle this? I have no desire/craving to return to carbs, but I’m a little tired of pre-configuring what I’m going to do for veggies & fats.


#2

I don’t know how long you have been following a keto diet. I’ve been doing it for about six months. I also did not feel hungry enough to eat what I thought I should. I read about people eating five eggs a day +++.

Now, I eat until I’m full. My appetite and thus the quantity of food I eat has increased over the last month. I feel great, my numbers are improving. In the beginning I’d be fine until I started to eat, then my hand would shake as I took my first bites. By the time I finished I was okay. Thankfully that has gone away.

I try to eat a variety of proteins and low carb vegetables and no longer worry about the amount. Yesterday, I was starved all day so I ate three times in a four hour window. Today, I’m back to normal.

I’m still trying to figure it all out so this is only my experience.


#3

I am not sure about the bleh part but I am totally like this. Sometimes. I have this at lunch. I can’t always eat an OMAD sized very low-carb lunch… I have another smaller meal soon, it’s fine.
The weaker before hungry is very, very common in my life, it’s good, I have a sign to eat and I am almost never hungry :wink:

Okay similarities ends here…
I avoid vegs.
Fat just… Comes. I have been fighting to keep it at a minimum since 11 years. It goes well on carnivore OMAD, actually.

I eat fatty protein sources and voila. What do you eat and how much? And do you want to lose fat (so you can get away with less food)?

There are zillion vegs, by the way. Even low-carb ones.


#4

YAY! I feel less alone now. People always talk about eating twice in a 6-8 hour eating window or not begin hungry for many hours after a meal and I am here with my close meals (when I don’t do OMAD) :wink:
I had 2 meals in 3.5 hours today (I did that in 2 hour but that’s really rare). I just can’t always pull off OMAD but 2 proper, biggish meals are too much for me. So I just eat a bit later too.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

Firstly, you don’t need vegetables at all. People have lived on plant-free diets for decades and been fine. There is no known disease of carbohydrate deficiency, and if there were, I’m pretty sure it would have been discovered by now.

The point of a ketogenic diet is to avoid sugar, grains, and starches, because they are very rich in glucose, which drives up blood sugar. Elevated blood sugar results in elevated insulin, and the two of them together cause damage over time, as well as promoting fat storage. So we recommend that, if you feel you need to eat vegetables, they should be ones that grow above ground, because they tend to be lower in digestible carbohydrate.

As for fat, you need only enough to satisfy your hunger. Fat has a minimal effect on insulin, so it thus becomes the safer energy source to replace the calories lost from lowering carbohydrate intake. Fat is not magic, so you don’t want to eat more than your appetite requires.

Try the following: eat very little carbohydrate, a reasonable amount of protein, and enough fat to satisfy you. (There is, as you will discover, a big difference between eating till stuffed, and eating enough.) If you find yourself needing a snack, either make it something carb-free, or make a whole meal for yourself. (There is no need to eat according to the clock.) If the food stimulates your appetite, then eat the meal until you stop being hungry again.

There is no need at this point to limit yourself to an eating window, or fast, or any such thing. Eat when hungry, stop when no longer hungry, wait until you are hungry again before eating again. I think you will find that, while you may find yourself eating more than you think you should be, your body knows what it wants. Once it is assured of a reliable food supply, and that the famine is over, your appetite will most likely spontaneously drop. It works that way for most people, at any rate, though a few people find they cannot trust their appetite hormones.


#6

I decided at the outset that I would never be able to maintain a ketogenic diet if I had to be overly fussy about specific amounts of this or that. I love food; I like to cook; and I couldn’t cope if I had to treat my new regimen like I was a lab rat. I know what the real no-nos are: sugar, bread, potatoes, flour, rice. These I abjure. I know what the problematic veggies are: tomatoes, carrots, onions, etc. These I’m careful about, but you can hardly make meals without some of them. One’s 20 grams have to come somewhere. So as long as I adhere to these principles, I find I can still cook delicious meals and enjoy eating as much as I ever have. If I’m losing weight, losing diameter, and dropping my A1C, I don’t feel like I have to plan my meals around pre-determined percentages of “macros” or weigh the ingredients to be sure I’m not overshooting the 20 gram goal. (And I don’t mind a glass of wine now and then either.) So, for example, I will make myself a spinach and feta omelet for lunch, or a bacon and broccoli crustless quiche, or bratwurst and sauerkraut. I’ve developed a taste for intense cheeses. Or wrap long pieces of avocado in bacon and pop them in the oven. I try to keep a lot of keto-friendly ingredients around, and when I want to find something new for dinner I just tell Google a few things I have on hand and see what recipes use them. For example, I found yesterday that broccoli, bacon, and toasted pine nuts make a brilliant combination. When it’s warm enough to grill, I’ve been trying new burgers (no buns of course). Goat cheese and caramelized onions (yes, I know) are fantastic toppings. There are a million ways to make chicken thighs. I just found a great NYT recipe that involves braising them with salami and green olives. I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that keto doesn’t have to be a bore.


(Bill) #7

But the 20g is an upper limit not a minimum… just saying that carbs are in no way essential.


#8

It is very helpful to me to read about the experiences others have in our journeys. I can say oh it isn’t just me. Or sometimes I have the experience later, after I’ve read about it. It helps.


#9

I certainly agree that 20 g of carb is a limit, not a requirement. My point is that we might as well spend our carb allowance on something that makes our meals more savory and inviting, not on crap. I can’t imagine cooking without onions or shallots. Better that than eating bland pablum and then finishing up with a couple of Oreos.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

Actually, they don’t need to come from anywhere. The human body cannot survive without protein or fat, but it can survive nicely without carbohydrate. We advise an upper limit of 20 g/day, because that’s a level of intake that will lower virtually everyone’s serum insulin, the exceptions being people who are extremely insulin-resistant. (Moreover, people who eventually decide to eat a plant-free/zero-carb/carnivore diet often find that it is easier to eat no carbohydrates than it is to limit oneself to some.
What little glucose the body actually does need can easily be supplied by the liver, from a process called gluconeogenesis.)

The goal is to lower insulin sufficiently to stimulate ketogenesis in the liver and to free fatty acids from the adipose tissue, so they can be metabolised. Some people can probably consume as much as 100 g/day of carbohydrate and still have insulin low enough to permit ketogenesis, but most of us, especially those of us with damaged metabolisms, need a much lower limit.

Protein intake essentially does not change for most people on a ketogenic diet, and the main dietary change is an increase in fat (preferably saturated and monounsaturated) to compensate for the energy lost from reducing glucose intake (i.e., carbohydrates). While we need insulin to be able to live, we don’t need all that much, and fat has the least effect on insulin of the three macronutrients.


#11

Eating once a day is ok. I have been eating mainly once a day for maybe 2 years now.

Weakness before getting hungry is not usual. It may be an electrolyte imbalance problem - in which case make sure you are getting a good amount of potassium, salt, magnesium etc a day. It may also be that you are just not eating enough during your one meal. Try tracking your intake for a few days. Finally, you may not be getting enough nutrients and this is more likely if you are not eating enough.

Regarding getting enough, a good start would be to eat fattier cuts of meat (so, no lean chicken breasts for instance). Fatty cuts of pork, beef, chicken thighs, bacon etc is the way to go. You get the protein and fat in one go.

For, fruits & veggies can take a bit of time to know what you like and can have. Some people don’t have vegetables on keto. I do - and I eat a lot of it.

I like okra and lettuce too. However I mostly consume cauliflower, brocolli, aubergines, zuchinnis, radishes (Daikon particularly), spaghetti squash, tomatoes, onions, ginger, avocadoes, garlic, strawberries, raspberries, coconuts, guavas etc

Of course, you may also have nuts as they are nutrient and calorie dense however many people find it more-ish and easy to overeat.

The key thing is making sure you do not go over 20g net carbs a day for now (your limit may increase later). Stick to fattier cuts of protein and eat enough, add the veggies/fruits you like, add healthy fats like olive oil, butter etc and eat the occasional nuts and you should be ok.


#12

I presume we all agree that people can live with no external carbs at all and that 20 g is a limit, not a requirement. I’ve become a champion at gluconeogenesis. My morning fasting glucose is now my highest of the day – something that worried me at first but no longer since my A1C remains normal without medication. What I was trying to address, maybe a little too flippantly, was what I thought was an issue for jh5899 with difficulty finding an appetite for eating a keto diet. That is what I took from:

In the distant past, when I tried other ways of losing weight, I was confronted with diet masochists who lectured on how I just ought to be more disciplined about what I ingested. “You should eat to live, not live to eat,” they would say. Unfortunately, I discovered that I have at least one foot firmly in the live-to-eat camp. I could never enjoy the experience of just fueling my furnace by calculating what I needed to meet my macros and then prescribing myself 6 oz. of broiled steak, a stick and a half of butter, and a quarter of a head of lettuce. What I guess I was trying to get across is that there are many, many vegetables in the world, most of them delicious, and we’re allowed to eat quite a variety of them, so they can be used to prepare meals that make you want to dive in and eat to satiety. And for that matter, meals that you are proud to serve family and friends whether they are on keto or not. Consider the eggplant. You can hardly believe how much olive oil one of those beauties will suck up and how good it tastes properly seasoned, with a little grated parmesan maybe, and accompanied by some of its vegetable friends. I worried a lot at first about the crowd that says, “Sure, keto works, but no one can stick to it, so you’ll start to cheat soon and be back on the yo-yo before you know it.” But it hasn’t happened that way. I was surprised today to look at my progress over a longer time frame than I usually do and see that I’ve been losing 2+ lbs. a week for almost five months at a remarkably stable rate. This way of eating is sustainable, but for someone like me, at least, it has to be delicious to work. [I edited to change month to week; 2 lbs. a month would be okay but not quite as rewarding.]


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

Oh, yes, a ketogenic diet is unsustainable, but first it will kill us. All that arterycloggingsaturatedfat, you know! :grin:

#NOTDEADYET