When classic physique competitor, fitness model, and Team Bodybuilding.com athlete Lawrence Ballenger started oiling up his muscles 2 minutes into the conversation, we should have known what we were in for. He discusses his insane diet and protein intake, plus how to stay in ketosis on 500g of carbs a day.
I call BS on this - what do you guys think?
daddyoh
(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!)
#2
I have no interest in even reading the first sentence of the article. I won’t call BS but I will call no interest in this sort of edge case nonsense.
240lbfatloss
(Ken)
#3
People who train heavily like Bodybuilders are different. When carb cycling as a part of glycogen recompensation I could eat 500g of carbs and still test positive for ketones.the next day. The carbs were being burned. Training virtually every day while following a three day split routine plus cardio on your off day places very heavy demands on your body.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#4
I’ve also had a massive piece of ice cream cake and the next day was in ketosis. Doubt it was 500g carbs, though.
Body builders on unique people with huge insulin and sugar sinks (their muscles).
PaulL
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?)
#5
If one is eating healthily, why would one wish to impose a metabolic emergency on oneself by eating carbohydrate?
In my own case, the answer would be the satisfying of addictive cravings, no more, no less; there is no health-related reason. And of course, the problem with addictive cravings is that they can’t be satisfied.
BlueViolet
(hottie turned hag)
#6
This^^. I didn’t read the article, the description tells all. He is an extreme athlete. Prob NOT BS in his case but would be disaster for the average Joe.
240lbfatloss
(Ken)
#7
To insure metabolic health. That way you can avoid things like the One Year Stall you’re experiencing.
Q66
(KetoQ)
#8
I believe he is eating 500g carbs a day and is in ketosis, but he is an outlier.
He is an outlier in that he must be very insulin sensitive, which is a very healthy thing to have. But as he continues to eat high carb, and ages, his insulin sensitivity will very likely diminish, and it will adversely affect his blood sugar, blood pressure and cardio vascular health.
He is also an outlier in that he has a very radical training regimen that burns lots of calories and carbs. I’m not criticizing his training choices, this can work for guys and gals in their athletic and physical prime, but when he ceases to compete, or his body wears out from pushing his body so hard for so long, he won’t be burning as much energy. He’ll likely pack on the pounds.
Proof? There are lots of YT videos with bodybuilders in their prime and 20-30 years later. Some look great. However, the majority of them lost their mass, and many others look like regular schmucks. Even Arnold has a little bit of a belly. This just doesn’t apply to bodybuilders, but other pro athletes as well lose their conditioning very quickly once they leave the game. I remember Dan Marino and a few other NFL players doing Slim Fast commercials a few years ago. Even Derek Jeter is developing a double chin. He doesn’t look bad, but you can tell his diet and training are not the same as when he played.
My sense from listening to guys who have trained a long time and want to stay fit, what is important is finding a combination of diet and training that are going to help you meet your athletic goals, without food or training becoming too much of an obsession.
KidKeto
(Cristian Lopez)
#10
Thats interesting, I met him Danny at Ketocon last weekend!
Dr Ken berry also mentioned something about that too…
https://www.facebook.com/ketocounterculture/?tn=kC-R&eid=ARDd-e5x14GzUiSQbdD1c4i1y_zFv3WkM8EU5GJzcQma5FKxj2-KjbOUKnKcPIbcYcNFvjF-M65KvvTL&hc_ref=ARQ_3FccWV8QXuKe8RCp51xLYiMhn_deCcJxCrAetb31ACQvlXatV4vwqUdk5uMhffQ&xts[0]=68.ARCTfZkw_3xLjiK-CwHf-IOQUnpMvv_qIFYtzZlcUzGjpmXOnUiT2lNU4Tr00djEx0XcCuOZS0oX4dEAByTcg1bON6aYGpxgXPiuFMs4BRFKSjlV-4cyfaTLHNCF6OcoIGfTPV5swZCHACnuJLvGkxUMmq9D3m324aus4yd8G0LU4RFs_Gt1_jFDmfEAURLNjVSgodCT-VlbkCAg1iYMjz-UmazuX3lXoLDoso20xrWcc-ejb4JCehScyR0hT8k9HgYj4–mtWjd4pbiV7tpCr5Kv2RaNAB0tlonJLARMeuKhZ64pdyZqjeQ5Y424WKmPM4954kOs6t84tLuEmz_vFOMLnNgUON2uc_Ley4qza0FgJ-XXTMXry_SUoQCy0RitLLUCMI7ylGWVlgY4y_3VlmC0OnB7zrL0xkVX7gI9–MN0E
KetoDummies
(Hamz Edward)
#11
This. Muscles=metabolism boost. He’s continuously training to build muscles. On top of that, prolonged exercise can promote ketosis, and keto-adapted bodybuilders/athletes can do it better.
TriMan66
(Andrew Meyer)
#12
I don’t see it as so black and white. Carbs aren’t all evil and not everyone is suited to a Keto diet. In my opinion there is no one size fits all diet, or one that is BEST for EVERYONE.
That being said I do much better on a Keto diet than on a carb diet, I can manage my weight better and after getting fat adapted I can manage my physical activities at the level I want.
As to the bodybuilder I would surmise that if he can eat 500 g of carbs and stay in ketosis then it would be due to his shear muscle mass and training regime. It’s a lot of calories to burn through but if they are low-glycemic index carbs then he would avoid wildly fluctuating insulin levels and be able to burn through them efficiently.
The human body is designed to work with carbs and it is the preferred fuel source, nature just never expected us to be consuming refined carbs nearly continuously and having our insulin production always on or nearly always on.
I believe nature had designed us to switch back and forth between carbs and ketones regularly and even seasonally. More carb driven, but not exclusively, through the summer and primarily or even exclusively keytones through the winter.
VirginiaEdie
(Edith)
#13
So… who actually said that carbs are the preferred fuel source. Or should I say, “What research actually proves that carbs are the preferred fuel source?”
The body processes alcohol before carbs because alcohol is toxic and it wants to get the alcohol processed as soon as possible. Maybe it’s the same with carbs, particularly excess carbs. Maybe we process carbs before fat to clear the toxin (blood sugar) as quickly as possible.
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#14
The body, or liver, or metabolism does not ‘want’ or ‘prefer’ anything. Fuel metabolism is a chemical process, moderated by hormones and enzymes. The chemical process will always follow the path of least resistance: the least expenditure of energy for the most extraction of energy. Ethanol is the simplest, easiest and requires the least energy to process, so when it’s present it gets metabolized to the exclusion of anything else. Next simplest and easiest is carbohydrate. When carbs are reduced and drive glucose low enough, fat gets used. All fuel is toxic at sufficient concentration over sufficient time.
Dipper_Actual
(CharleyD)
#16
Yep, in other words it’s called Energy Substrate Competition and it’s dictated by how well the liver can store or direct to be stored any given substrate.
Alcohol is on top (well actually I think exogenous ketones are now, but not found in nature) because there really isn’t a hollow leg to put alcohol in, it all needs to be metabolized.
Glucose is next because over the small amount in our blood, the tank of glycogen our livers can hold, there’s muscle store of glycogen. With enough insulin though, and fully replete glycogen stores, glucose can be shoved into interstitial areas where we don’t want it. (diabetic retinopathy anyone?)
Fatty acids are last, as our adipose tissue is designed to hold onto that, for that very purpose.
Think about it this way though, chemical energy is in the double bonds. What has more, glucose or a typical Omega 3 fatty acid? (none and 7) Fat just has more energy in it by weight.
Our brains, and myocardium love FFAs and ketones, they burn cleaner than glucose.
That said, to the OP @KidKeto , I think it’s true and can be true for some of us, I’d guess depending on fitness and testosterone levels and heart rate variability, if you’re willing to 1) lift heavy things, a lot, and do high intensity exercises and 2) deal with the inflammation from the carbs.
But it is a tricky balancing act. He’s built up a huge reservoir of glycogen in those muscles that hoover up the dietary glucose, that he then quickly burns up with heavy resistance training. I don’t know what exactly what happens if you were to eat a 500g carby meal and then not work out just enough to burn it all…
I dunno, if I were paid to do it I’d consider it, hah. But I really enjoy the low inflammation I currently have just doing a few TKD and calisthenics sessions a week and running it all on fat and caffeine!
BlueViolet
(hottie turned hag)
#17
I must heartily agree.
Having decades of experience in medicine (research not clinical practice) I can state with confidence that everything is case by case. Everything.
There are no absolutes in medicine and the better clinicians know this and treat case by case, not by protocol.
Anecdotally, I have a lifetime vegetarian/7 yr vegan daughter who is a lean, muscular machine on a heavy carb/veg diet. I have a (admittedly, very odd case) good pal who is in amazing shape (does extreme hikes, travels internationally to do so) at age 56 on a heavy carb, heavy sugar mostly junk diet.
Me too. And I have another daughter who I feel would benefit greatly from it as well (she refuses to try, though). But to say it is best for all is an unsound position.