I ate more fat and dropped in weight

(B Creighton) #21

It does seem counterintuitive, but I also found that by increasing fat on keto, I had good energy all day, and lost weight while gaining muscle with resistance exercise. This is largely because we are replacing the energy source of carbs with the energy source of fat. One thing you mentioned that I feel is relevant in this regard is the type of fat you increased. A lot of it was dairy fat. Dairy fat has MCTs in it. MCTs become ketones when they hit the liver. MCT fats have been shown to increase fat loss. This is probably because they end up as ketones which act as signalling molecules to the mitochondria. i consume MCTs every day.
I have switched to goat yogurt, however, for two reasons:

  1. it has twice the MCTs as American dairy
  2. It doesn’t have the A1 casein issues of American dairy, which has always seemed to bother me. Here the dairy fat is not really the issue, but the digestion of a primary protein is, because in many people it ends up throwing off beta-casomorphin-7, which I believe is a problem - JFYI. I will let you research that if you wish.
#22

Ah. It could be the MCTs then. I just suddenly found myself very addicted to cream, and began indulging with a vengeance. Because I’m all about winter comforts and christmas indulgences lol.

Regarding the A1 casein issues, I will look into that. I’ve never been all that keen on yogurt, but I will look out for some nice goats cream cheese in the shops as a special christmas treat.

(Bob M) #23

You can find American dairy with A2 casein. I drink raw milk from Jersey cows, and they have A2 casein. You can also find milk advertised as A2.

These are harder to find, and you can’t tell for most cheese and like from what cows they are.

(B Creighton) #24

You are right.
The mutation came through Holstein cows apparently, but eventually got bred into Jersey and Guernsey cows, etc. However, purebred Jerseys and Guernsey cows are A2 casein producers. Actually, all cows are, but the Holstein’s and a few others can produce up to 70% of their casein as A1. If you can see the cow you are getting the milk from, apparently there is a greater chance it has A1 casein if it is spotted white and black, but otherwise, yeah there is not a way to tell how much A1 is in the cow dairy you are buying in the West unless you buy dairy from the A2 company, which is an Australian company which has partnered with some producers in the states. You can get A2 milk I believe from Sprouts, Whole Foods, Kroger, Albertson’s stores, and their affiliates such as Smith’s in the West and Piggly Wigglys in the South. There may be other chains which carry it now - I don’t know.
A2 yogurt is harder to find, but some smaller farms do now make it, like Bellwether Farms, and stores such as Kroger stores and health food stores have begun carrying their products. Goat yogurt still has more MCTs though, and I can get it reasonably priced at Trader Joe’s. Again not all people have the enzyme which converts A1 into beta-casomorphin-7, so I suppose they don’t need to worry about it. I just know I seem to have no problems digesting goat yogurt whatsoever, whereas if I eat too much cow yogurt, I can get a bit of an ache, although the issue seems less with full fat yogurt… maybe because the volume of protein is less. Anyways, there is some conflicting science implicating beta-casomorphin-7 in type1 diabetes, oxidation of LDL, which I believe is involved in heart disease, etc.

(Bob M) #25

I’ve been using goat milk yogurt, though it’s probably the most expensive yogurt. Makes me want to get my own goats, though I have no idea how to get a goat to produce milk or raise goats. And my wife would kill me.

(Edith) #26

I believe the goat has to make baby goats every so often in order for them to keep producing milk. Maybe if you had baby goats running around your wife wouldn’t mind. :laughing:

(B Creighton) #27

LOL. My new neighbor started off with 2 pygmy goats. The male would get on top of stuff and jump the fence into my yard. He loved my mulberry leaves. Goats are more browsers than grazers, and will tend to eat shrubs and trees they like more than grass, even though I had nice tall Kentucky BlueGrass for them. They are actually rather care free as far as animals go, and will readily convert your kitchen scraps into compost. My dad raises Boar goats, and sells them to Mexicans for meat. They generally birth twins. Probably the most common dairy goats are Nubians… that’s about the extent of my knowledge of raising goats… LOL. Recently, I have been thinking of raising rabbits, and may do so if things keep getting worse. However, obvioulsy you lose any potential dairy benefits. I just don’t have enough land for goats to be practical.

(Jane) #28

My dream is to raise Nubian dairy goats when I retire but I have to beg to differ with you as far as care-free. Meat goats I won’t argue but dairy goats have to be milked every day at least once a day.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #29

It pays to check with city hall to verify what the local ordinances allow. My city would permit up to six hens on our acreage (not enough land to keep any cocks, because of the noise), but I doubt we could keep more than one goat, if any. I’d love a couple of sheep, but the lawn is nowhere near large enough. A goat could at least get table scraps.

I’m just not sure how any animals would get along with the deer, foxes, and coyotes in our area.

(Bob M) #30

My problem too: predators. I’ve been wanting chickens, and while it’s possible to do, I’d probably have to build a fortress.

We have 2 neighbors with goats, and I can probably ask them if they know what the rules are.

One neighbor with goats also had a cow, who got away and ended up in our yard. I went out to greet it, and it freaked out and ran away. Went back to the neighbor’s.

(Jane) #31

You would. Can’t let them free range or have a standard wooden hen house.

I live in the middle of heavy woods and have coyotes, foxes, bobcats, raccoons, hawks - many predators. I haven’t lost a single hen to predators in 3 years knock on wood. But they only free range when I am out there with them working in the garden - otherwise they have a large 30’ x 60’ area to scratch in and it is totally enclosed, including bird netting at the top. Their coop they roost in at night is inside that and has heavy hardware cloth on all 6 sides so nothing can dig underneath or get in when the predators are the most active.

I replaced all the latches on our chicken coop kit to make them (more) raccoon-proof. Those buggers are smart and their paws are more like hands.

#32

It does to me. I am pretty curious if people eating 4 lbs of meat eat 1800 or 5000 kcal a day (while having some normal energy need), it is highly informative to me. Even if it doesn’t matter to them, there is a huge difference and I am interested in it.
And this thread is about fat so it’s even relevant…?

Indeed, I can’t know 100% but I would bet big money on me never want 3-4 lbs of meat. It makes zero sense and goes against all my experiences on every diet but yep, the latter is pretty much extrapolation at this point. But carnivores usually start with much meat and I started my tiny trials with little… Still extrapolation, sure. I just say then that I am very, very, very hopeful I never ever will want more than 2 pounds of meat. If I do, I will quit as I can’t afford that (and hate wasting protein anyway). So we won’t see that from me.

But an exceptional day… That would be different. I like my personal records, that’s fun. 1000g meat is what I could do this far (and I ate plenty of other stuff too so more is actually possible). I remember the fattiness of the meat, of course as it’s very important for me as I said. Precious extra info. I am pretty sure now that my ~4000 kcal/day is my hard limit on every woe without high activity or some other special circumstances (I may go higher but that is compulsive eating and feels wrong so I hardly ever did that). But it still allows more meat than that (though I eat fatty meat easier. but that may change, indeed, I can’t know).

#33

I can’t keep animals here (no room for them) but at least I can see the sheep grazing around here. They are often free and go wherever they can and we still don’t have a fence… Or the ones eating our apple tree was the goats? Probably. (It bounced back and grew bigger than our old cherry tree and that was the biggest fruit tree in this garden… Not nearly as big as the HUGE one in the neighbourhood. In Japan it would have respected as a god. It was majestic but a storm came and proved to be stronger. It’s a very windy area.)

#34

I know what you mean Shinita about there being enough fat on the meat. I now find myself choosing cuts that have a really good portion of fat as well. Like the pork chops I had today, they were cut more thinly than I was used to, and there was much less of the meagre pork meat and a good portion of fat, the result being that they tasted fenomenal. I could have just eaten the fat too, salted, yum. I am really hoping to get some pork belly for christmas, reduced of course as too pricy otherwise.

As to how much meat I eat a day I really couldn’t say. I don’t weigh anything or measure anything. But I am enjoying it all fiercely. I can’t say I ever relished food like I do now back on my high carb, low fat diet. I do get you on the cost of meat too. My SO and I always look out for the reduced stuff and make sure we use the meat, fowl or fish up before it goes out, as we too both hate wasting good food.

#35

Oh we never waste any meat ever. All our thrown out food is a smallish amount of vegs and a bigger amount of fruits a year, they rot like crazy. While the average person wastes super much :frowning: That’s very sad.

Fat is important for everyone, some of us do it more consciously for reasons though. I am mostly just curious. My taste and hunger/satiation keeps my fat/protein ratio in its normal range without tracking and it’s good as I can’t track these things as I can’t possibly know the fat content of my meat. But I make an educated guess if I can :wink: And even if I can’t, I still have some vague idea of my protein and that is the more important information. But actually, both are, especially now that I go for OMAD for good reasons. Still, protein is more important, I need a lot of it and it’s highly unlikely that I eat enough protein and not enough fat… But I still want to be sure and know my numbers as they are fun and potentially informative.

(Alli) #36

Also addicted to cream here :smiley: I either eat it with a spoon, with a sprinkle of cinnamon, or melt butter and extra thick double cream with a little lemon juice and black pepper and pour it over whatever i’m eating.

I’ve also found that goats dairy suits me really well too. Beef burgers baked with fresh goats cheese on top, then drowned in egg yolk/butter or cream/butter sauce is my go to meal. Or quiche made with 3 large eggs and a 300ml pot of double cream, mix a little fried bacon and a singular floret of broccoli in for some texture. I do fine with cow’s cream as it’s mostly milk fat I think, but cow’s milk and cheese gives me the munchies and a bit of phlegm.

On calorie-controlled keto my weight yoyoed between 130 and 160lbs (i’m 5ft6) as I fell on and off the wagon and struggled with energy crashes. Eating a lot more fat (via pork/bacon, butter, cream, eggs, beef trimmings) caused my weight to drop to 115lbs and then increase and stabilise to around 120-125lbs when I started doing a lot more strength training/moving due to an increase in energy. I eat 3000+ calories a day typically so it seems mental to weigh less than when I was doing IF/OMAD and tracking 1200-1600 calories a day, but I do move a lot more now, I’m warmer, my mind works faster, and I have days where I’m not hungry at all and I will only eat 1000 calories in one meal if at all, so I guess on average my calorie intake is closer to 2000-2500 and my metabolism/energy usage is increased, so it all works out/doesn’t break the laws of physics.

If you have any other ways to consume cream or goats cheese, i’m all ears! :smiley:

#37

Hi Alli, I do wonder if IF/OMAD every single day mightn’t mess with one’s metabolism. I believe Dr Jason Fung, the fasting guru, recommends switching it up a bit to keep your body guessing. Perhaps that’s why when you increased your fat intake you found yourself dropping in weight, and obviously there’s weight gain with muscle gain as muscle weighs more than fat, but I bet your body reshaped nicely. Dr Fung doesn’t believe a lot of exercise actually makes that much impact on weight loss, but it’s always good for the skeleton and organs to be moving, and not have a life that is too sedentary, and of course, adding muscle should help you burn fat.
I myself don’t exercise and I don’t do IF anymore, I just eat when I’m hungry, and also don’t feel any desire to snack.

As to how to consume cream, I like extra thick double cream which I eat in a bowl and pour a little coffee over for flavouring, it is the best dessert I can think of, but I’d love to try it with cinnamon too, the smell of it is so christmassy🎄

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #38

There were several studies published in the last couple of decades, which show this. The main benefit of exercise is that it stimulates healing of the mitochondria and encourages them to make new ones, which greatly benefits our metabolic health.

#39

It’s individual, of course exercise may be the key for some people’s fat-loss (as they inevitable eat much and only uses it up if they exercise), less so for others, some people get hungrier when more active…
I don’t care what is the case for the statistical person as I am me. But I just should do everything I can anyway, I don’t need to know how much it matters. Exercise is vital to me.
And it’s a must for my SO’s maintenance, that’s pretty much proven. He always loses fat with 2MAD (eating significantly less) but keeps his figure through exercise (and eating 3MAD). Without exercise he would gain fat and never could lose without starving. So exercise may play a huge role for some people but of course, not for everyone. And it’s way to easy to mess it up with eating so eating is pretty much the key, usually.
Of course exercise may cause muscle gain and that helps fat-loss, it may make us feel better and less prone to eat out of boredom…etc. So it may have an effect, it’s just not a general thing and it may be too little compared to how we can mess it up through eating… But if one already eats little for maintenance compared to what comes naturally, it sounds very logical to me that exercise may help a lot in that case, maybe it’s vital for fat-loss. According to my experience, it’s a thing even if it’s rare (no idea if it’s rare, probably not so much but I can’t know),
Of course there are no extensive experiments about it, we are just too many and different and there are zillion factors. A little exercise alone usually don’t matter much in fat-loss, obviously. My ~80km walking a week for years did nothing, no wonder (I didn’t change my eating) but it felt nice. Okay, it wasn’t much exercise but I had time and mood for that only. And my average is even less anyway. Extensive exercise probably helps more :slight_smile: But we still need to focus on eating, clearly. But if we did that and it isn’t enough, exercise may help. Or not. But it’s still good to exercise :slight_smile: If we do it right and are healthy enough to do whatever we doing.

#40

Hi Shinita. I think there are benefits to exercise outside weight loss that really does add to one’s quality of life, apart from reducing stress levels and strengthening the immune system I believe someone who is reasonably fit is generally a lot healthier than a couch potato (guilty). And strength training for instance does strengthen the old bones and skeletal system. In fact there are probably a gazillion benefits from doing exercise, if it doesn’t directly impact weight loss. I am 51kg and less than half of my SO’s weight, but he is still a lot healthier than me, for sure. I would probably do more exercise though if I had the energy to do it. And perhaps in time that will happen. I definitely think exercise is good not just for the body, but for the mind, as the two are connected. Just so long as it isn’t overdone and so becomes taxing on the body instead.