I am stumped, falling out of orbit, can anyone puzzle this out?

#1

Hi, I use an electronic keto-meter once a week the past 3 readings have been:

Dec-05: 0.8 mM
Dec-12: 0.6 mM
Dec-18: 0.4 mM

Yep below the 0.5 mark - yet I have not cheated or gone over the speed limit or tried radically different foods …

Through out this period I have eaten pretty well exactly the same things: Fried bacon and eggs in butter, avocados, roast chicken, beef steak, canned fish, real fish, feta cheese, Colby cheese, vegetables?

Daily average grams of: net carbs=21g, protein=103g, fat=125g

Average daily Cals=1600. Yes I know we don’t count Cals but I do. I’m a short middle aged man stuck to a computer or three, only exercise is walking the dog, so I don’t require a lot of Cals I suppose?

My weight is 77kg (170lbs if you prefer), so maybe I should have 80g protein not 100+?

I’m losing a little bit of weight a pound or two in this period - I am about 5 to 10 lbs within my goal weight?

Maybe I should eat more? Maybe less protein and more vegetables?

I am rather surprised at the continued dip in ketones does anyone have an explanation or similar story or something, or … ?

Thanks in advance.
Alex99

(Allie) #2

How do you feel? Chasing numbers is not the answer, it’s likely your body is just making less ketones as it’s more used to using them. Remember the measurement just shows what is in the blood and if it’s in the blood it’s not being used as fuel, you can’t track what is actually being used.

(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #3

Testing ketones once a week will tell you absolutely nothing.

You haven’t mentioned how long you have been doing keto either.
We cannot even begin to decipher those numbers without frequent testing and even then it’s completely redundant if you are fat adapted.

You are in ketosis with those numbers, that’s all you need to know.
Weight loss is not linear, you will not lose the same amount of weight every week consistently.

#4

I feel good. Consistent energy supply. Not hungry. No weird cravings. Carns about 20g. All good that’s why the 0.4 nM surprised me.

But yeah good point about measuring current blood levels not what has actually transpired.

Thanks again.

#5

I’ve only been in keto for a month. Yep ima n00b but I have completely devoured all the literature and vids.

I’m definitely burning fat as measured by notches on my belt. I’ve dropped a couple of notches.

I was just surprised and disappointed with the 0.4 I was hoping for ketones over 1.0 or something

I did find a paper which shows measurements around the clock. They definitely bounce about and 10AM is a low point which is when I measured the 0.4

Thanks for your reply it was encouraging.

(Running from stupidity) #6

Fair effort - I’m an honours-level researcher and I’ve hardly scratched the surface in over six months.

#7

Ha, ha, yeah I obviously do not literally mean “all the literature” - I should’ve said, all the “standard” books: Gary Taubes, Robert Lustig, Nina T, Phinney/Volek, Westman/Phinney/Volek, Atkins, Noakes, Ivor Cummins just to name a few, a bunch of papers and any vids of theirs I could find. Not even scratching the surface.

#8

I see what you mean I tested again today at 10PM, this time the result was 1.3 mM (versus 0.4 at 10AM).

I knew not to rely in measurement of weight, I guess weekly ketone numbers are just as misleading.

It seems the most reliable measures I have are counting carbs and counting belt notch changes (-2 in a month on that metric).

(Carl Keller) #9

The time of day when you test will have some bearing on the readings. Generally, early AM readings after just waking up will be much lower than at other times of the day. Lower ketone readings in the morning don’t mean keto is failing you. You don’t need a ton of energy when you are asleep so your liver isn’t cranking out ketones at a high rate.

(Running from stupidity) #10

Correct. That’s why the breathalyser is the best thing to buy - it’s cheap and a one-time cost.

It seems the most reliable measures I have are counting carbs and counting belt notch changes (-2 in a month on that metric).

Yup.

(Allie) #11

You got it :+1:

(Jennibc) #12

Also when are you measuring? I’ve read that first thing in the morning we have a spike in blood sugar and that can throw off readings so they suggest waiting. I JUST got a meter last week to see if the strips were accurate. (they are! If I show nutritional ketosis, they are light pink when I show optimal, the strips are darker) But I find that an hour after waking, I am just in nutritional about .9-1.2 and later in the day anywhere from 1.9 -2.9. I have only been measuring twice a day because those strips are expensive!

Also I wonder if it’s because you are so close to goal. My loss has been very slow and it almost feels like it as screeched to a halt as I am only about 10 pounds overweight now. But I figure a half a pound to 3/4 a week loss average will eventually get me there and I have already come this far so I am just going to carry on.

Edited to add - Now that I have read through all the posts I see I have not much to add since they’ve already covered the timing of the tests.

(Bob M) #13

Only thing is there’s not a lot of correlation between blood values of BOHB and breath values of acetone:

BOHBKetonix
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The left two columns after the time are BOHB from blood (have one meter at home, left column, and one at work, right column). The third column is from Ketonix (breath ketone analyzer), the fourth is blood sugar. You can see that for blood ketones of 0.2, I get Ketonix (first model) of 22, 36, and 53. And I have many other measurements like this.

(Carolyn aka stokies) #14

The more adept you become at using ketones for fuel, the less you waste in urine or breath. Like others have said, how you feel and how clothes fit are better indicators. There are metabolic events internally that science is still figuring out - so there may be other ways the ketones are being utilized. Trust the process and it will gt you there. I’ve never tested and I am 70 pounds lighter 8 months later. You got this!

(Bunny) #15

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Blood Ketones fluctuate all day long, simply walking around the house (skeletal muscle tissue movement = physical exertion[3]) they will go up and down like a yo-yo. Those blood ketone test strips be expensive but if your were to take readings let’s say every 15 minutes all day long, you would see low, highs that would really confuse you even more! If you don’t believe me try it[1]? Fully fat (ketogenically) adapted after 27 weeks or so[2]; blood ketone readings will always[3] be really low, as well as glucose levels[2]!

References:

[1] ”… While measuring ketones can be interesting, they tend to be a much noisier measurement. …” ”… If your blood sugars are at 4.9mmol/L or 88 mg/dL your ketones might be somewhere between 0.4 and 1.1 mmol/L. …” ”… Part of the reason that you may not see high levels of ketones in your blood though is that they are being used efficiently for fuel and not backing up in your bloodstream. “… You will likely have some blood ketones in your bloodstream when your blood glucose levels are low, but they may not be at the levels that many consider to be ‘optimal ketosis’. …” “… So if you have limited funds for test strips and don’t want to be pricking yourself too often then I would focus on blood glucose levels. …” …More

[2]“… But my blood sugar levels are typically between 3 and 3.9 mmol/L, which translates into 50 to … or sorry 54 to 70 mg/dL. So, that 65 to 99 mg/dL is considered to be normal by government standards here in Canada, the 54 to 70 is considered to be common amongst ketogenic population. A lot of my patients too, who follow ketogenic diet, they’re getting sugars between 3 and 3.9 or between 54 and 70. …” - Megan Ramos

[3] “…The time you are taking (too long to be HIIT) to exercise will elevate your glucose and lower your ketones (for how long I’m not sure?) not that, that is a bad thing but if you were to take some resistant starch right before you exercised you might see an increase in blood ketones and drop in blood glucose but not sure how that would work if your diabetic and how that would affect your night time glucose numbers? …” …Bunny

(Brian) #16

If you’re eating right, and it sounds like you have a good handle on that, I’m not sure why you’d continue to measure for ketones… unless there is a specific ketone level you’re trying to achieve for a specific reason. (?)

I measured with the pee sticks for the first few weeks, mostly out of curiosity. After that, I just eat well and let things happen. I’m mindful not to eat too many carbs and mindful of getting an adequate amount of protein. (I tend to eat too light on protein, probably from all the years as a vegetarian / vegan.) Otherwise, I pretty much eat as my hunger dictates. I don’t eat nearly as much food as I used to as a carb burner but I don’t go hungry either. I eat a variety of good food and don’t really pay much attention except when I get a craving for something. (Cravings are usually for good things anyway… might be for a hamburger, might be for a salmon fillet, might be for broccoli, those kinds of things. No idea whether those things are really my body asking for something or not but have heard more than one person say so. So I listen. YMMV.)

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

If you are keeping your carbohydrate intake below your insulin-triggering threshold and are not dead, you are making ketones, so don’t worry about it. Whether or not you are fully fat-adapted yet is another matter, and depends on how long you have been eating a well-formuated ketogenic diet. It usually takes around eight weeks for the body to make the necessary hormonal adjustments. Many people see a decline in measured ketones as they become fat-adapted and as satiety signaling reduces their caloric intake to something closer to energy expenditure. But high levels of ketones can be a sign that the body is excreting energy in response to a high energy intake, so if you feel a need to increase your ketone levels, you might try eating more.

(Running from stupidity) #18

No, I’ve never claimed there was. That’s the point, that the numbers don’t mean much anyway.

#19

All good to know.

I’d say I’m not fully fat-adapted but I can already see tons of benefits. Consistent energy supply. More energy in general. No brain fog due to glucose dips. Feel like there’s life ahead of me now. Oh yeah and some weight loss.

Thanks to you and everyone who replied, great information.