How reactive to fiber are you?

(Bob M) #1

Over time, I’ve found that I’m “reactive” to fiber. That is, fiber causes me negative issues, particularly when defecating (too much info, I know).

For instance, I’m making more natto, which is a fermented soybean product, ridiculously high in vitamin K2 and also nattokinase. I’m trying to eat 50 grams or so every day that I’m not fasting. It’s beans. This small amount of fiber a day causes some issues for me.

I’ve tried inulin multiple times. I couldn’t really find a benefit, but since it’s a fiber, it gave me issues once I got to the level of inulin you’re supposed to take. Mainly negatives for that, for me.

I tried potato starch and probiotics for a while. Whoa, I had to start with a really low amount, and was never able to not have detriments.

And there’s more. Salads: these, I can only have 1-2 times a week, or all kinds of heck breaks out. “Healthy” things like sweet potatoes (including Japanese ones), bell peppers, etc., all cause me issues.

Can you have fiber?

(Cathy) #2

I don’t have any issues. However prior to keto, I had what was probably IBS and I think the root cause was wheat. I think I had leaky gut syndrome. I have never eliminated fiber but of course did so with wheat and wheat products. After about 12 years I ate wheat on vacation in Europe and seemed ok.

Over time I have been able to eat low carb bread products with wheat proteins and have no issues. My theory is that my gut has healed.

It sounds like you may have leaky gut and might benefit from a regime that addresses that specifically. Just a thought.

#3

I don’t eat much in the way of vegetables, mostly celery every now and then. I do however have Inulin, probably a fair amount each and every day. I have a life long problem with constipation and this, along with prescribed stool softeners helps enormously. Keto definitely suits me better, I think the ‘low fat’ dogma I experienced most of my dieting life probably exacerbated my problems. Higher fat definitely helps.

I’d like to try allulose but it’s way too expensive in the UK.

#4

None now, but I had to start upping fiber (a lot) after a colonoscopy showed that I beat the hell out of myself for years from not having it in there. Had to start slow, my main source these days is my 647 bread, but I average like 50-75g a day, again, added it slow. But at first, it screwed with me, made me feel like I’d swallowed a boat anchor, bloated me to hell etc.

Now, when it goes to even “normal” levels it shows a lot, mainly in the bathroom. For some of us we just need it, for others it’s the high protein.

I think Seed Synbiotic was a huge one for getting my gut straight. That’s a STRONG biotic! First couple times it caused me serious back pain, never even knew that was a thing, but after looking into it, it is. Now instead of the 2 a day you’re supposed to work up to, I do 1 every other day. Keeps me good.

(Brian) #5

I know, kinda personal, but I truly wondered what that meant in real physical terms. How were you injured by not having fiber there? I’ve not really heard of that being common in the keto or carnivore space, honestly typically hearing the opposite.

Inquiring minds… (if you wanna share.)

(Harriet) #6

I’m okay with whole foods, salads, vegetables in general including the cruciferous family, even beans, but psyllium husk destroys me, no matter how slowly I’ve tried taking it (like a teaspoon a day). Gives me soooo much gas. Bums me out because it’s used a lot in keto baking but the pain is not worth it.

#7

I bought into the keto nonsense of you just “making less waste” and that it was normal to go 1-2-3x a week instead of basically daily. Thanks to that, my colon got stressed to hell and it progressively got harder to go when I did. Gave my self some pockets in the colon and diag’d with diverticulosis, which is the step before diverticulitis.

Doc handed me my a$$ and told be he was seeing that left and right with people eating keto and super low carb and if I didn’t add fiber in and work it up that I’d be back and it would be way worse.

After seeing it literally in pictures, I listened, started adding in fiber in both food and supplement form, and within a week was literally going to the bathroom normally for the first time in years. That let to me tweaking and testing, trying TKD, then CKD and ultimately doing a hybrid of the both of them. Very quickly noticed my performance in the gym skyrocket and I’ve stayed that way ever since.

#8

I tried psyllium a handful of times before I added a lot more fiber to my diet and had the same thing, it was out of whack gut bacteria and not even REMOTELY enough water, which would include the electrolytes. The starting point for normal people according to all the health and performance people is half your bodyweight in oz a day, but keep in mind that’s for people not eating keto, and keto has a diuretic effect. So realistically should be higher for a keto’r.

Without fiber our gut bacteria takes a beating and a lot of the species dies off. I half cheated that rebuild with Seed Synbiotic, took a while and a handful of gut testing until it went to optimal, which was visible in how I reacted to different foods, but I had to see it on paper so tested every 6mo or so for a while.

(Brian) #9

Wow, that is quite the series of events, Ifod14. Sorry that you were/are going through all of that.

Makes me wonder how common or how rare that is, really. Not talk, posturing, hype, but for real. Have heard of others mentioning nearly the opposite, having their lower regions calmed dramatically by eliminating the fiber altogether. (?)

While I am not a carnivore, I do consider myself low-carb and spend some time in ketosis. Honestly, I won’t touch a salad, but there are some veggies that I do still enjoy. Do I go every day? Not every, but most. Pretty common after the morning coffee. :wink: Creatures of habit, I guess… :slight_smile: Varies a bit depending upon exactly what I did eat. Nothing concerning, though.

Thanks for sharing!

(Harriet) #10

I’m really not worried about it. I added marshmallow root to my supplements, that plus baked butternut squash regularly keeps things content. Like I said, whole foods are fine. I just wish I tolerated psyllium because I’ve seen some recipes that call for it I’d like to try.

(Brian) #11

Went down that road quite a lot when I first went keto. Definitely cleaned things out…

Anymore, I like things way more simple. Don’t really want keto treats much anymore. Often it’s a meat and a bit of veg and I’m done, nothing fancy at all.

(Harriet) #12

Apologies in advance for the length, I just got myself on a ramble.

I’ve been keto for 10 years now, it’s become a lifestyle. I’m also non-celiac gluten intolerant (figured that out about 25 years ago), eating keto eliminates a lot of hassles. I’m also a 61 year old woman, most GF recipes are stupid high in calories and carbs. I’ve been battling my weight since I was 14.

My husband likes a treat, and happily eats low carb. I like to cook and don’t mind a bite of something other than dark chocolate or sour cream with cocoa powder and erythritol. We all have to find the best path that we can stick to that gets us our goals.

Sometimes when someone is just starting out in this WOE, keto treats and carb mimics can potentially be detrimental for certain people, it’s too triggering. But they can also help keep others on the path. I’ve reached the point where, honestly, most “normal” stuff doesn’t taste right. OTOH, I don’t like the idea of living my life without ever having a brownie or a slice of pie.

I’ve done it all, including totally whole foods, zero carb mimics. I eventually get bored and my husband starts looking at baked goods in the store. We’ve found a good balance for us and thankfully we don’t fight the types of health problems that forces either of us to eat a certain way.

(Brian) #13

No apology needed! Thanks for sharing. :slight_smile:

It is interesting how things change over time. I’m often amused at people who start a new way of eating and declare that they’ll eat this way forever. OK, they say that now. I don’t tend to take that too seriously as to me, that’s kinda silly. Tastes change. Health needs change. We age. It’s not wrong to reevaluate along the way and adjust as is prudent, whatever direction that might be.

(Doug) #14

Harriet, very nice post. :medal_sports::slightly_smiling_face:

So much of the whole deal is philosophy, and finding one’s own way.

#15

A lot of it comes down to gut bacteria, and I think a lot also comes to different types of fat intake. Some keto’rs eat keto level carbs, but go out of their way to add fat in where it wouldn’t ever be otherwise, some eat normal amounts of protein, some eat high protein. It all comes into the end result, and then throw in that we all handle stuff differently even under the same circumstances.

(B Creighton) #16

Yes. I try to have some soluble fiber with every meal, and do fine.

Of course as a bean, soy has raffinose, which we have no enzyme for - thus, it hits the lower gut, and is fermented there in the microbiome causing gas… I assume you are having other issues? I just use a raffinose enzyme like beano.

You know potato starch is not fiber right? It’s starch, which is basically glucose. You don’t want to use it for fiber.
If inulin is causing you “problems” like the runs, I would be tempted to think you have “dysbiosis.” To “digest” inulin you really need a specific probiotic called Akkermansia muciniphila, which you will have to order special because it is just not in the typical probiotics.

#17

It seems I function just fine with any possible amount of fiber. Zero, little, much, quite very much for a day - never noticed a difference (if the fiber significantly raises my net carb intake - it often does - that’s a different story though it’s still not a huge difference). I consider it a neutral thing for my body and I am so glad I don’t need to worry about it at all.

Can’t you just skip it or something? :smiley: If a big amount, well that’s probably not a good recipe (except my buns with half flax, half psyllium husk as dry matter was fun. I ate the whole batch, of course nothing happened, I usually love my body :D) but easy to use something else instead. I don’t think baking needs fiber, I normally use almost none (the tiny amount is from nuts for flavor) but if other fibers work, there are options. I don’t use keto baking recipes as basically all uses almond flour and I won’t pay big money for that (tried once, underwhelming) but I have zillion very different recipes, baking is easy on keto IMO - but I have spent quite much time on experimenting and it’s a hobby for me.

I go once daily on (or close to) carnivore and way more often when I eat mere low-carb… It’s surely individual but maybe people like me benefit from less fiber and you from more? But I work fine enough with any amount, personally. Most people are more sensitive, it seems.

Yeah, it may change but maybe they truly know it is for them. When I went low-carb, it was very obvious I never go back to high-carb. I don’t say the occasional day doesn’t happen but that’s it. It makes no sense to me to eat really much carbs from a hedonistic viewpoint and from a health-conscious one, it makes even less. (The best food is carnivore anyway, I just like a bit more variety and I am in love with almost all fruits and I doubt it will ever change.)
But yep, we usually don’t KNOW for sure what the future brings. I surely got some surprises after going low-carb - but I evolved into the “less plant matter” direction.
And indeed, our “ideal” diet may change. What works perfectly may be not the best later. But keto truly clicks for some people and they stay, either because it becomes normal and works well or because they have to. Of course we may need to change the style of our keto, not everyone is lucky enough to find the right one right away (who does, still may need to change it eventually but some of us aren’t a great fit with our keto in the beginning. mine had too much plant carbs and they interfered).

(Harriet) #18

The thing with baking (as opposed to “cooking”, like making a stew or even just roasting something), is that it’s chemistry. Too much of this, not enough of that, and your end result bombs. In the case of psyllium used in keto baking, its acting as a substitute for gluten, mimicking some of the stretchiness and adding chewiness. There aren’t a lot of products that I know of (bear in mind I’m in no way an expert) that can do that as well as being keto compliant. Well, scratch that. There are products that can mimic anything in baking, just not things commonly available to home cooks or even that you’d want to put in your body.

(Philip H Kern) #19

Good post. My wife (same age as you) is not celiac but eats wheat-free. We used to love our bread and the occasional pasta, but since she ditched them, and I followed out of convenience, we both feel much better. The exception was on a trip to Italy where we ate a lot of both and felt fine. This leads me to believe the culprit is modern wheat.

As for the chocolate fix, I’ve discovered that I’m incredibly satisfied with my ‘keto pudding’, which consists of 40 gms of peanut butter (nothing added), 10 grams of 85 per cent chocolate, and 80 gms of double cream. No sweetener needed, and takes about 90 seconds (including 37 seconds in the microwave, melting the chocolate and PB). Not low-calorie but delicious and about 7 carbs. That’s often my lunch.

(Harriet) #20

I do something similar except, like I mentioned earlier, I use sour cream. Basically two or three parts sour cream to one part lightly microwaved peanut butter (just to warm it) sprinkle with vanilla, cocoa powder, maybe cinnamon, erythritol to taste. Stir. I call it keto peanut butter mousse.