How much protein!?

[KennyCrox]

I do think we are all so different in what works for our bodies and feels right

Snowflake

You are not a snowflake.

We are more alike that disalike.

Kenny Croxdale

[KetoIFgal]

I’m a post menopausal 59 y/o woman. Very different from a 22 y/o male body builder. I’m doing quite well on a keto/IF diet with < 90 gr of protein a day. Have lost 55 lbs (so far), reversed T2D (A1C dropped from 12.1 to 5.8 in 6 months), I have tons of energy, increased strength, sleep great, have better moods and mental clarity, clearer skin, aches and pains have vanished…on and on. If someone else can achieve all the benefits that I have with 200 gr of protein a day, I say great for them…and that would surely indicate that YES, we are indeed snowflakes.

[Septimius]

I’m a post menopausal 59 y/o woman. Very different from a 22 y/o male body builder.

If someone else can achieve all the benefits that I have with 200 gr of protein a day

For clarification, the two posters who referred to eating 200g of protein a day are both women.

The key thing is that if you are personally happy with what you’re doing and the results you’re getting, then that’s great!

I think the bit that’s thrown me is that I can’t work out what your stance is from your posts - are you worried that you’re not eating enough and checking in to see what other people feel (you’ve clearly read the opinions of experts in the keto community and know that your intake differs from some of the recommendations), or are you telling us that you’re happy with what you’re doing?

Your first post felt like the former, but your later posts feel like the latter.

Either way, you won’t find much argument here - most people are big advocates here of n=1 experiments; it’s really important that you find something that works for you and is sustainable, and if you’ve found that, that’s brilliant.

Generally, people will reply with different stances to a topic because it’s important for readers/lurkers to see a range of viewpoints and experiences.

[KetoIFgal]

why are you eating OMAD and TMAD?

I’m still not at my goal weight and it’s helping me to continue to lose at a steady pace (although slowly). I want all the metabolic benefits of fasting. I love the freedom it gives me not to be constantly thinking about food, preparing it, cleaning up, etc. I also tend to be a volume eater (okay, I binge) when I do eat and I really look forward to my OMAD to have a variety of foods to satiety. Having one delicious meal to look forward to each day makes my WOE sustainable for me.

A lot of folks think you need to eat this stuff for a healthy diet. But you don’t and eventually you discover that you’re only eating it because you want to not because you need to.

Oh my! It will be a sad day for me when I only eat things my body “needs” without any enjoyment. I believe I eat a healthy diet of a variety of foods that nurture both body AND spirit.

[KetoIFgal]

Yes, I am very happy with what I am doing. I feel great. But it’s hard to keep hearing so many keto experts banging on the protein drum saying the MINIMUM we need for good health is ‘still’ far above what I eat. And they go on to assert that as you get older you need to consume even more. Ugh.

[amwassil]

Oh my! It will be a sad day for me when I only eat things my body “needs” without any enjoyment. I believe I eat a healthy diet of a variety of foods that nurture both body AND spirit.

I can’t figure out why some seem to think this. There is no rule of life that when you eat simply what you need you will not enjoy it or lack variety. Or conversely that you must eat stuff you don’t need to enjoy eating. Food is not the center of my life - I don’t think about it much. I have other interests which give satisfaction, meaning and fulfillment in my life. I eat when I’m hungry, enjoy what I eat and then move on to other things. In fact I find it rather strange that some folks seem to obsess about food.

[PaulL]

eat carnivore now and I eat around 2400 calories per day. I release so much heat now

There’s a study, mentioned by Gary Taubes in Good Calories, Bad Calories, in which the participants were put on an ad libitum low-carb diet. One of the participants ate around 3000 calories, and he still lost fat at the same rate as the other participants. And, of course, there’s Sam Feltham’s 28-day experiment of eating a 5000-calorie low-carb, high-fat diet, where all that happened is that he gained a few pounds of lean mass and lost a few pounds of fat. (He was already lean, to begin with.)

Now, Mr. Feltham was forcing calories, but the 3000-calorie guy was simply eating to satiety. What these events tell me, however, is that if I eat to satisfy my hunger, I don’t really need to worry, as long as I’m eating very little carbohydrate and getting my energy from fat, instead. Experience seems to bear that out, since my weight has been stable since December 2017.

[Shinita]

Despite eating 1600 per day (and I weighed every single thing), I wasn’t losing at all - I was cold, hungry, annoyed, exhausted, and obsessed with my next meal.

Surely your body considered that starvation and slowed your metabolism. I am never cold, I wasn’t even when I truly and serious starved for 11 days (I had no money, at least for food) and lived in 8Celsius. Maybe my hedonistic optimistic body just turned off all the negative signs but maybe my metabolism didn’t slow down much.
In my case, it’s all about calories. If I eat less calories but more carbs (still low-carb, that is a must) and my activity and other factors I know about are the same, I lose quicker (or lose while I don’t on keto) and it lasted for at least several weeks each time and my bodyweight is quite stable, without the expected fluctuations. I imagine huge protein intake changes could go against this but my protein intake doesn’t like to change too much, no matter my woe. It’s for times close to each other, people change and my body doesn’t do what it did 10 years ago using a similar lifestyle.
I always reach satiation, I am a hedonist, I eat when feel any serious urge. And carbs usually make me hungry, that’s why my chasing a smaller calorie intake lead me to eating less and less carbs (and it feels better too). Not like it’s enough for me to lose any fat but it’s an important factor.

I don’t have this thing with heat and cold at all, my body function similarly regarding this, my macros don’t matter.

You are right, one just don’t know their energy need first. I only figured out mine through stable fat-loss. I ate as little as I comfortably could, significantly over the guesstimation of a calculator for my energy need… And lost fat just fine, slowly but it was perfect for me. So now I know calculators are super unreliable. Of course… We are different even if our basic stats are the same.The very same person with the same body composition can have a very different energy need due to metabolism speed changes. I always advise people to eat as much as they feel like first - unless it’s too little, some people automatically starve on keto, they just don’t get proper signs to feed! Or maybe they eat too little protein for reasons. My body would scream bloody murder if I somehow would figure out how to eat low protein… I get the serious nudges already sometimes but then I eat some fatty protein and all is well. But not everyone feels the need and if they believe rules about dieting… That is sometimes painful to see. (I always was stubborn and ignore keto advice too. I am on my own race, 1 participant, no time limit Health first, joy and convenience second… We will see the rest.)

YES, we are indeed snowflakes.

You are so right! We are all snowflakes Though Brian (from Brian’s Life if someone doesn’t get it) didn’t say that. Oh well. It’s a modern version.

I personally need just as much protein as you, probably. I probably wouldn’t lose protein with way less than 90g (IDK where you get the opinion that you should consume more protein, I saw such thing but very rarely, I more often say ideal amounts lower let alone minimum ones! some people bulk with 1g/kg! there are some personal differences, I totally wouldn’t try that, 1.5-2 sounds better. the crazy higher numbers are for bodybuilders on steroid - or the rare one who can use more than 2 or who suspects they just don’t use it all due to some problem?). But I can’t stay that low and more feels right too. I am sure we people have different working ranges. I never felt anything bad with 80-140g as average and didn’t try higher numbers for longer term, occasional 180-230g protein never was a problem. Or zero.
But I don’t get more energy, no matter my macros. Ketosis feels like not ketosis. Extreme low-carb is better but energy? I wish! My mental clarity, whatever that is, is the same on every woe.
So we get different benefits too. We have different hardships and sensitivities… We are different (but a bit similar too) snowflakes
I spend a ton of time on food even on OMAD days, it doesn’t help so much… And I need variety even if I have 3+ meals… But fewer meals can be more convenient indeed - if we can eat enough food without a problem. On some days 1-2 meals would be serious force-feeding for me and that’s no good. But when it naturally happens or close, that’s the best!

I can’t figure out why some seem to think this. There is no rule of life that when you eat simply what you need you will not enjoy it or lack variety.

No, there are noi such rule. Many people enjoy their simple, seemingly boring menu. Good for them!
But Joanne and me, well we need so much more than the simple necessities. I am a not too bad hedonist (my goal is being a great one!) so I surely would enjoy the hell out of a simple menu - if I was forced on it due to health reasons. I would learn to be content with that. But I am not forced and I feel a bit miserable without variety and the ISH part of my carnivore-ish. And I want my off days, of course. It must be, my basic core personality demands I don’t force myself and make things hard without any good reason. I met people who didn’t understand this, it’s fine, I guess.
I have this even now when I don’t mind if my meal isn’t so enjoyable. I lost a lot of interest of it, probably short-term. Carnivore-ish is amazing like that in my case. Still, I can’t do too simple. There is so few dishes I can eat for a meal alone, without other courses…
Each to their own.
I suppose our past is very much to blame. And our options. If I grew up on beef only, I surely wouldn’t be bored of beef only.

Or conversely that you must eat stuff you don’t need to enjoy eating.

I am very sure some people must eat stuff they don’t enjoy. There are people with some very messed up food preferences… Maybe there are just the extreme cases with some extreme eating disorder but they do exist. Probably much more people have this to a smaller extent. Sometimes even I must eat things I don’t enjoy. I have days when there is no food in existence I want (not enjoying it, I hate the idea, I can’t eat them at all) and I am so, so hungry… I hate those days and finally I find something I can eat without joy but without big force but I need creativity and variety for this. And often desserts when they are the only thing I can eat at the moment… But I have no problem with desserts, actually. Not my ideal items as they aren’t as satiating as fatty meat but there is no problem with a fatty, protein rich, nutritionally very precious carnivore-enough-for-me dessert.
Food is one of my main joy source even if I don’t eat it. It’s too important for me and I should change it eventually but it’s highly important for me. So I can’t just say it’s not important, let’s forget about it. My mind doesn’t accept that now.
Food is my first thought and thankfully not the last but close… And I think about it all the time in between. Among my zillion other joys. Woe me. One day I will heal. But now I can’t handle myself as I was like you. I never will be. Food is GREAT joy and I need to eat anyway, it would be such a waste not to focus on it quite much! But maybe not nearly as much as I do, yeah, I am aware about my serious food obsession/addiction.

if I eat to satisfy my hunger, I don’t really need to worry, as long as I’m eating very little carbohydrate and getting my energy from fat, instead.

But you aren’t actually slim and I wanna be I don’t worry about gain, I wanna lose!
And I can eat to satiation on 1500 and 3000 kcal alike on keto (well I never actually did it long term but mostly because of the lack of discipline I am sure), food choices matter a lot even though my carb intake plays a huge rule (but it’s not the case for everyone). I doubt my results would be the same and my maintenance calorie range is huge, it’s not like that for everyone, to put it lightly.
I stall if I eat way more carbs (and calories) too. Maintanence is no effort (when I have this weight. and my mystery stress gain is an exception), losing is the hard one.

[lfod14]

My collagen supplement gets me within striking distance of 100 gr, but I don’t think it counts.

Nope, it doesn’t. Collagen isn’t a complete protein. Swap that out for a protein powder and you’ll have all the stuff you wanted out of the collagen and it’s count towards protein intake. Head to youtube and search for protein sludge, your appetite will allow you to eat plenty of that! I’m eating a chocolate chip brownie one with whipped cream, 50g right there and tastes exactly the way it sounds.

[KetoIFgal]

Wow, sounds great. Thanks for the rec.