How high can you go?

(Eric Sporer) #1

For those who measure BHB, how high can you take your carb levels and still remain in ketosis? I’ve toyed with it myself and can typically go well beyond the standard 20g. In fact, I regularly hit 40 without a problem, sometimes up to 50. Anyone else have any experience with this?

(Scott) #2

I aim for <50g because I like wine but I don’t measure anything. Keto still works for me!

(Paul H) #3

Ok… I googled it… but still not clear to this newbie. BHB…please clarify it and how are you measuring it? Thank you for your patience. Can I start drinking boxes on wine? :slight_smile:

(Ian) #4

I generally sit around 0.8 to 1.2 BHB (Keto Mojo) and after ~7 months I am now sloppy with my carb counting. In the early day when I was trying for <25-30 net g carbs I would average higher, but now for example I can eat two Timmies sausage and egg breakfast wraps (Canadians will know what that is…hmmmmm) which each contain 24 g carbs plus a regular keto meal and it does not knock me out of ketosis. I will drop to say 0.4-0.6 but not out. So for my genetic make up and metabolism (recovering pre-diabetic) I appear to be able to tolerate ~50-60 g of carbs, most of which is relatively highly processed in the form of a tortilla wrap.

Your question should also be asked in the context of what type of carbs. You may only be able to consume 20-30 of highly processed carbs, but 50-80 of raw carbs, particularly if the food contains a lot of natural fibre. For example 34 g of blackberries will likely do less damage to your BHB than a can of regular Coke.

(Marco de Jong) #5

BHB (beta-Hydroxybutyric acid) are the ketones bodies in the blood. Metabolism of fatty acids and ketogenic amino acids are metabolized via a serie or reactions. Beta-Hydroxybuteric can be measured in the blood via a ketone blood meter.

(Paul H) #6

Oh ok… So the mojo meter is actually testing BHB Ketones. Thanks!

(Nick) #7

I made a post asking how in the world I was still in ketosis after a 200g carb refeed with sweet potato and rice. I was .5 on the meter 1.5 hours after meal and back up to .9 before bed. I find it VERY hard to knock myself completely out. Even with a massive cheat day with sugar and >400g carbs I am back above 1.0 in the morning. Keto for 4 months, lift weights and do cardio 6 days a week.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

It’s completely individual and depends on your metabolic health, primarily, although there seem to be genetic factors involved, as well. When I started keto, it was after watching several videos of lectures by Dr. Phinney, who at the time was promoting 100-125 g/day of carbohydrate as a level at which it was possible to enter nutritional ketosis. (Of course, at Virta Health, he recommends a limit of 50 g/day to his patients.)

I seem to be one of those people who can remain ketotic at a fairly high carbohydrate intake, but I keep it low anyway, because the less carbohydrate I eat, the better I feel.

Β-hydroxybutyrate is one of the three ketone bodies, produced by the liver as intermediate products of fat metabolism. The other two are acetoacetate and acetone. They are all inter-convertible to some exent.

For some reason it seems to be conventional to measure acetone in the breath, acetoacetate in the urine, and β-hydroxybutyrate in the blood, but my understanding is that all three are found in all locations. In any case, the standard definition of nutritional ketosis, promulgated by Phinney and Volek, is a blood concentration of 0.5 mmol/dL of β-hydroxybutyrate.

ETA: Strictly speaking, β-hydroxybutyrate is not actually a ketone, as chemists define the term, but it is considered a “ketone body.” Here on these forums we generally use “ketones” and “ketone bodies” as synonyms.

(Eric Sporer) #9

I’ve noticed similar surprising situations where I eat a lot of carbs and somehow keep registering ketones on the strips. I can’t imagine it’s sustainable, though.

(Eric Sporer) #10

How strictly do you measure your carbs? Do you estimate? Or do you meticulously track every teaspoon and cup?

(Todd Batitis) #11

I do. I have logged all of my food daily (in grams) in My Fitness Pal since March 2018 when I got back on the horse and started working to get my weight under control and fix some of my metabolic issues.

Personally I use grams as it is much more accurate. There are videos that show just how inaccurate some of the measuring devices (cups, tablespoons, etc.) can be with some of them being as much as 20% off.

To put it into perspective, here is mine for today so far. I got home and had a pork rind/guacamole snack to break my daily 20+ hour fast (I do 20:4 Intermittent Fasting each day) and then had a large chicken salad made from the ingredients you see in the list. If I made it the same every time I make it, I could write it up as a recipe and it would read “Chicken Salad” but I am always adding different things to it.

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(Herb Martin) #12

Some people can’t do 10, and some people can do 50 and achieve ketosis.

For old hands, who know how to root out hidden carbs and know their own bodies (and measure) this is fine.

For beginners, any magic number (including the vaunted ‘20 grams’) is a danger.

Not only do they not know their bodies but in most cases, they will let a lot of carbs into their diet through ignorance or misunderstanding.

Without knowing the true amounts ingested and without knowledge of their own limits failure becomes highly likely.

At which point they blame “keto” or think it won’t work “for them”, when they really haven’t even tried it YET.

(Ian) #13

Hi Eric. For the first few months I used to look at every label and googled how many carbs in 100 g of “this and that” and calculate the total carbs (totol rather than net, just to be on the safe side) for every meal, with the plan to mentally stay just under 25g. I used to religiously avoid anything with sugar, even 1 g. Fairly quickly I found I was fat burning because I lost weight and lost my hunger. Within 2 weeks I was eating a handful of pecans with tea late in the morning with a single meal in the evening, so it was not difficult to mentally track my total carbs. Then I got a Keto mojo and tracked my ketone levels on a daily basis and started to relax. Initially my ketone levels were in the 1.4-2.1 so I realized I was fairly deeply into ketosis and probably did not have to limit my carbs as much. The ketone meter definitely let me relax more which is why I am now a sloppy keto, and only vaguely keep track of my carbs. It gets easier and more intuitive once you start eating the same meals for which you know the carbs and the meter keeps confirming you are still in ketosis.

Hope this helps.

Ian