How do you deal with people trying to force you to eat carbohydrates?


You can’t teach old dogs new tricks.

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #62

I thought that the assertion is not that absolute size of brain makes for greater intelligence, but rather brain size in relation to total body size?

In any case, asserting that something is a “fairy-tale” isn’t particularly helpful. Can you provide evidence to counter the evidence already presented? Let’s have some debate, in place of the name-calling.

(Jack Bennett) #63

Yeah, as @PaulL says, it’s the relative size of brain compared to the body. Not absolute brain size. As I understand it, this is fairly well known in terms of evolutionary biology. The human baby grows “as big as it can” in the uterus without making childbirth too dangerous. Head size is the key limitation here. Then the human baby has a period of helplessness in early life while brain and cognitive development continues.

The brain is about 2% of body size and 20% of energy consumption. It’s believed that we traded off a lot of gut size and gut energy consumption to get these large brains. This was made possible through access to concentrated fats and proteins. In contrast, the herbivorous primates from whom we evolved need to run a lot of leaves through their gut every day to extract enough calories to live.


It’s evolution… Of course you can’t do much about your brain size during your little human lifetime…
And I don’t think anyone thinks that it’s this simple, more calories = bigger brain. Definitely not. But it’s hard to develop a big, needy brain if we have little energy from our food, it sounds logical to me. Obviously enough energy to evolve into that direction isn’t enough. Lots of animal species has lots of food all year long but they are just fine with their tiny bird brain or whatever they have. They went into other directions that gave them an advantage (something packaged with a hendicap, huge pretty tail to charm the girls even if it makes life harder… but if they can spread there genes more successfully that way, it’s good for evolution).
Humans could use a bigger brain, it helped with success and multiplying.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #65

Exactly… But if one doesn’t bother to actually look at the research, it’s just a " fairy tale" .

We found that species with larger brains relative to their body mass were more successful at opening the boxes.

Provided earlier by Michael

# Brain size predicts problem-solving ability in mammalian carnivores

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #66

Mind you, I’m not entirely convinced by all the logic in some of the papers, though I greatly enjoy reading them. It seems they are probably on to something, but that full understanding eludes us.

I’m not sure we fully understand “intelligence,” for one thing. Rats are extremely intelligent, in my experience (they are also adorable, and everyone should have a couple of pet rats, in my view), but I don’t know how their brain size compares to their body size. There used to be a show on British television, called something like “Bird Brain of Britain,” in which wild birds were posed complex problems (of the get-through-a-puzzle-and-win-some-food sort) and the results were filmed. Some of those birds performed amazingly. You wouldn’t think there’d be room for such complex thought in those tiny brains! Or is it that problem-solving is a basic component of what it is to have a brain, and not really complex at all?

So obviously there’s more to the picture than we’ve figured out so far. Did we grow big brains because we started eating meat, or did we need to start eating meat because our brains were growing? " 'Tis a puzzlement!"


I add a little to my last comment… We probably never get much bigger brains anyway (we already haven’t the biggest one during human evolution). Such things doesn’t continue forever, only until it’s beneficial from the viewpoint of evolution. We probably have a big enough brain already, an even bigger one wouldn’t be better. But back then it was very different.

(Doug) #68

It’s also the neural density that matters. Some of those birds are indeed amazing. Some dolphins have bigger brains than we do, and better spatial ability. Brain-to-weight, dolphins are in 2nd place, right behind humans.

(Vic) #69

I dont know about the happy health vegans every one I’ve meet is generally angrier then most, Love that justified anger

besides that they are always chasing the meat with veggie burgers, veggie sausage, and such even KFC is going to experiment with veggie chicken

to the point I want to say,Just eat meat already you’re clearly pining over it


There are very different vegans than that. Many vegans dislike fake cheese too. I always met very lovely, friendly vegans in real life. I even heard about vegans cooking meat for their family multiple times! (I never touched meat when I was a vegetarian but all my family members could cook themselves and all were fine with normal, honest vegetarian dishes anyway, I mean the ones I lived with.)
Vegans are humans, with very different attitude and reasons for veganism, we can’t say much about them in general. The not “normal”, lovable ones are louder though, they can be quite awful sometimes, of course I know that type, fortunately only from the internet.
It doesn’t matter even if they want meat. They don’t eat meat. It’s not an option. It’s like you say to ketoers to eat “real” bread and sugary cakes, ice cream and chocolate instead of keto versions… We may have very good reasons to eat the keto versions (even if we happen to like the originals better) and the originals are completely out of questions. Many vegans avoid meat due to health reasons just like many ketoers. They follow their own beliefs or experiences.
Maybe they like the fake meat, not the real one. Many vegans never ate meat and like some substitutions. They may have their roles, not even only in some vegetarians’ lives.

(Brian) #71

Wow. Just wow. This thread has morphed in all kinds of ways. And unfortunately, it’s an example of why some people just don’t hang out here quite as much anymore.


It’s you. Most people aren’t humble and are easily offended like yourself. If we all lived our lives by not standing up for what is factual… we would all still be living as apes. Thanks to us for pushing the envelope.

I’m sure you enjoy the technology and vehicle you use. They definitely didn’t come to be from people easily offended with every little thing because it takes a special mind to push through the annoyances involved with innovation.

I may not like or agree with everything I read on here but I sure learn something valuable that I didn’t before. It comes with the territory and I’m glad for it. The world would be a very dysfunctional place if we were all equal sheep.

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #73

Brian does have a point about threads wandering from the original topic, however. This wandering is not always a bad thing, but it can be frustrating.

@richard’s stated goal is for these forums to be the most reliable resource on the Internet for the ketogenic diet. As long as people are posting useful information, or that faulty information, when posted, is being challenged with good data, that’s all we really ask.

(Brian) #74

Thank you, Paul.

Straying from topic isn’t necessarily a bad thing. And opinions vary quite a lot. I get that. And sometimes dramatically. When the venom comes out on full display, though, well, I just don’t need to see it.

(Steve L.) #75

I explain that there is another view of nutritional healthfulness than the low fat diet with the everyone on statins, blood pressure pills, and diabetes medications view of the world. I offer to share three or four podcasts. I tailor my podcast suggestions to the particular person with whom I am communicating. I have my favorites from Two Keto Dudes, Peter Attia’s The Drive, Low Carb MD, Ivor Cummins’ the Fat Emperor, and Diet Doctor with Bret Scherer. If it is someone with a science/medicine background I send much denser podcasts than someone who is a lay person with no science or medical background. I never forget the quote I say outloud to myself every single morning of the year, “It never hurts to see the good in somebody, they often act the better because of it.” This quote by Nelson Mandela carries me through lots of difficult thorny situations. Folks who give me nutritional advice are universally well meaning; they just haven’t been listening to the same informational sources that I have. Each of us is responsible for her/his own nutritional sobreity. Being evangelical about nutrition is a fool’s errand. Does this make sense?

(Stuart Young) #76

Depends on how I feel and who is ‘offering their advice’.

If I decide that the person asking has an IQ level capable of understanding, and has the ability to even form an independent thought/show critical thinking, I am happy to debate.

Those that are too stupid, or glued to their world view, I say a phrase that takes the onus off their precious world view or intelligence, and transfers it too myself. I simply tell them “I am carbohydrate intolerant”. It does the trick every time.

I have been enjoying work since the lockdown ended. My work colleague is one of those people I deemed too stupid to have the ability to break from his low fat mantra.

We are both obese, and went on ‘diets’ 4 weeks ago. 3 weeks ago, he couldn’t help himself and chided me on my lunchtime fried steak with full fat cream, while he ate his supermarket bought pot of pasta salad. Our lunches have reflected our present lifestyles over the 4 weeks.

I am 24lbs down, he has lost 6lbs. And he feels hungry all the time and is clearly tired. I am the opposite (I don’t always eat lunch, sometimes I do OMAD) and full of energy.

Very amusing to see the cognitive dissonance going on as I am tucking into bunless cheesburgers with full fat mayo while he eats his brown bread salad sandwiches and bananas…