How do (some) people eat high carb? Genetics? Something else?

(Bob M) #1

I injured my back this weekend, so I’m going to a new (for me) chiropractor. He is tall and thin. Gave me a list of his favorite restaurants: pizza; sushi; Italian; Italian, etc. Most recommended foods are high carb, with one being meat-based.

Meanwhile, I have been using a CGM (continuous glucose monitor). Went to dinner and the drink I had was slightly sweet, so I’m assuming it had high carbs. The dinner was basically keto, though. I did have a few spoonfuls of refried beans + rice, at the end of the meal. Not too bad, a high of 133.

Then went to get ice cream because the wife and I were alone, hit 152, so quite high. Went home, and was STARVING. Every time I eat high carb, even for something like ice cream that is also high fat, I’m starving. I had to eat a small keto mousse (about 3 ounces) made with 100% cacao, coconut, allulose.

This is reason I stopped eating higher carb, because I’m always hungry after eating high carb.

How do people eat high carb? Do they have some type of feedback system that still works/always worked to tell them to stop eating?

Mine is broken or I never had it or it never worked well, because if I eat high carb, I want more. Nothing is telling me “you’re full” when I’m eating high carb.

Am I broken? Is the other person “normal”? Or just gifted? .

(Central Florida Bob ) #2

I’ll vote for genetics is the answer.

My mom had what they called “adult onset diabetes” when I was 10 or younger. As I’m sure you know, they stopped calling it that when children started getting diagnosed with it. Mom did well, making it to 91, though still overweight and still on medication. My brother was diagnosed with type 2 as an adult, but I’ll guess when he was in his early 30s. I’m the one out of three that has never been diagnosed but after going on Atkins in the late '70s (before I was 30) and starting “lifelong fitness” stuff like jogging, I’ve been on the low carb side almost constantly. It just always seemed like it wasn’t low enough no matter what I did because no matter what I did my weight kept creeping up. I think all three of us have a sweet tooth. I still deal with that.

In the late '70s, I worked with a guy who would bring a big, paper grocery bag (remember those?) for lunch every day, his lunches looked way, way bigger than mine. We’d all joke about him being able to eat that much and not roll down the aisles instead of walking.

I say the other person is gifted, but they think they’re totally normal and rest of us have no willpower.

(Cathy) #3

I ate high carb freely in my youth and early adulthood. I began to gain weight in my thirties. I was slowly upping my insulin resistance without knowing it.

Most people will have this happen and the weight gain is only one of the variety of things that can happen. Type 3 diabetes being the thing that comes to mind (dementia).

And yet there are people that avoid both despite a high carb diet. I have a BIL like that. Thin, active and mentally all there and now 80. Here is where I think a thing happens and it’s about epigenetics. The gestational period when mother and fetus are sharing a lot of things including genetic material. The mother has already some level of metabolic disease induced by diet and passes it along to her fetus.

Sounds simplistic because I don’t really understand all of the intricacies of epigenetics but in my simplistic way, think this is a possible explanation.

(Bob M) #4

@CFLBob Yeah, my vote is also genetics, because I’ve exercised all my life yet still gained weight. Sometimes while exercising a ton. I think some people have a functioning “feedback” system that tells them to stop eating, even when eating carbs. Not much else makes sense to me, though I do believe I ruined or at least partially ruined my “feedback” system, probably with super high carb days (beer, pizza, ice cream).

@clackley I have heard multiple people (including Gary Taubes?) saying that what happens in the womb could be affecting our kids (or have affected me)? Much of my extended family was overweight, but we also ate super high carb (and higher fat), so it’s hard to tell. In my extended family, I only know a few people who were thin and able to maintain that. Though smoking is another factor thrown in, as some of the people who were/are thin also smoked.

I think it’s probably related to something like this:

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This comes from a study, but I got it from here: https://www.healthmaxim.com/posts/a-guide-for-people-without-diabetes/

I’m assuming I’m the person who eats (all of the) pasta and gets hungry and wants more; whereas my chiropractor eats pasta and is totally full and doesn’t eat the whole plate of pasta.

(Central Florida Bob ) #5

Wow!

That plot of blood sugar vs. time is really remarkable.

I have some things that I eat from time to time that have more carbs than pure carnivore food, but nothing I think of as being high carb. I make tomato sauce based beef marinara for one example, or unsweetened yogurt, and since I don’t have a CGM, maybe I should do the old standard way. Fast for a few hours, have a sample and see what it does by sticking a finger and measuring a few times with my Contour Next.

EDIT TO ADD: I forgot to mention that I don’t feel like I eat more, and since in a couple of quarts of this beef stew, what you get in one bowl is practically impossible to figure out. It depends on how many carbs or calories you’re getting depending on how much sauce, or how many chunks of beef you eat, and so on.

#6

Genetics surely has a role. My SO is a high-carber, he simply gets satiated by carbs very well. His satiation is almost all about calories, it’s crazy. He still needs protein, obviously but he is very health-conscious and anyway, desires protein so no way he doesn’t get it.
I am different, I need the right macros and even the right items (timing matters too). High-carb doesn’t suit me but I am very satiated on high-carb too, I just eat too much. I can’t get a stop sign without enough calories AND protein and carbs may interfere so I need more calories (or don’t need, I just eat it). If I eat thousands of kilocalories so my meal is big even in my eyes but my protein is low, I need more food. If not right then, later. But it’s usually right then. Sure, my SO needs his protein too but a super carby breakfast (well, fruity oatmeal. it’s the carbiest he can do for breakfast) keeps him satiated for 6-8 hours if it’s his normal breakfast size (he always eats around the same amount of calories with wildly different macros and everything seems to work the same. I am very sure pure sugar wouldn’t work but he couldn’t eat in such an extreme way if he wanted).

Gaining fat is another matter. My SO very easily gains fat so he is disciplined and very active. Low-carb makes things worse for him. Meanwhile I never could lose fat on high-carb by my own will, low-carb is helpful in various ways.

If it’s not nutritious enough, it makes sense to me, the body needs more.
If it’s a perfect usual meal + carbs and it’s lacking despite the extra food, yeah, I know that, stupid carbs interfere. They aren’t for all of us. I probably can pull it off now if it’s together with my fatty protein and not too excessive. I can’t end my meal with a bunch of carbs though. It doesn’t even feel right. And it’s perfectly fine, my body telling me it doesn’t like that style.

How people during human history (without able to choose) managed high-carb though… Even people like me? Poor souls. Many had super low protein from my viewpoint too. Could I get used to that?
At least I have no allergies or sensitivities. High-carb just doesn’t work so well.

#7

My whole life I can it buckets of carbs everyday never put weight on was always very active. In my work and exercise. Carnivore now works great.

(Kiona Kuna ) #8

As an RDN at Kior Healthcare, I believe that if your genetics are good and you maintain overall fitness, carbohydrates and wholesome protein foods are generally not difficult to digest. However, for personalized guidance tailored to your body type, it’s always best to consult a professional RDN.

(KM) #9

It’s also possible gut biome could have something to do with it. For example, a lot of what is termed fiber carbs that “don’t count” is actually handled further down by gut bacteria. No glucose spike but eventually provides those carbs / calories. If you’re missing those gut bacteria you’re also missing that extra carb load.

(Ohio ) #10

You beat me too it. I’m not going to start listing my first hand experiences with high carb food that doesn’t effect ketosis. My armchair view is genetics plays a role, but to a lesser extent.

#11

152 is pretty good after something like Ice Cream! Especially if you returned to baseline pretty quick.

Don’t feel bad, my hunger/satiety is permanently broken as well. Spent the last year on Semaglutide and lots of nicotine gum, and ephedrine to help beat it down. Now just switched from Semaglutide to Tirzepatide since it beats appetite down even more, although not yet sadly. I think I may have to jump way up in dose for that effect, which I’ll be doing this week.

That said, even when my stomach DOES actually give me that full feeling, my brain is still telling me to eat.

Years of strict keto, TKD, CKD, doesn’t matter. I’m always hungry.

(Cathy) #12

That must be so hard.

(Walter Hackett) #13

Nah you’re not broken, some people just handle carbs better. Mix of genetic, insulin sensitivity and what their body used to.

(Bob M) #14

@Shinita I think, for me, it’s more than nutrition. Something else is broken. For instance, I was not hungry at dinner a while ago, but my wife made beef “strips” (this isn’t what they’re called here where I live, but I can’t remember the name right now). I ate 1, then 2, then 3…and finished at maybe 6 of them, when I wasn’t hungry to start.

@kib1 The gut biome is a definite possibility, but there’s no way to test this. I looked into this a while ago, but this (substack) article has more info: https://open.substack.com/pub/theukcarnivore/p/from-blood-to-well-poop-what-your?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Basically, send your poop (the same poop) to different labs, get different results; test from two different parts of your poop and send to the same lab, get different results.

I’d really like to get my biome tested, but can’t figure out how. And, I have to be able to interpret the results.

@lfod14 150 is not bad for ice cream. I think the second peak is ice cream, about 1 hour in duration:

image

The first peak is a spicy/sweet drink I had (at a Mexican restaurant), and I did end the relatively low carb meal with some refried beans and rice, only a few spoonfuls. I had a meal that was mainly meat, but you never know what’s in the sauce.

I don’t often have ice cream, but the wife and I were kidless.

I’m with you on the hunger. I tend not to be hungry in the morning, and then again a few hours after I have “lunch” (my first meal). But if I eat, I get hungry. There’s a delayed response for me not to be hungry. I’m assuming it takes a while for whatever hormones that are not making me hungry to ramp up to the point where I’m not hungry.

#15

Amateur. I always could eat a lot without being hungry. Used to do it with 2000 kcal but I behave nowadays so maybe I am rusty. But 1000 kcal, any time (not from protein rich food though. but I probably could eat an extra 100g protein and fat any day, maybe not right after dinner, that depends but a bit later). It’s not being broken. It’s being able to eat without hunger. Normal and even needed for some.
Seriously, who can’t snack when not hungry? Very common thing among humans.
I call it broken when one never has hunger. Or always, almost no matter what. I get hungry, I eat, I get satiated, it’s normal. Wrong food, I get hungrier. No hunger, I still can eat. Normal enough. I have a diet where I function pretty okay so if something is wrong, it’s the diet, not my body.

Some people apparently don’t have this but it’s normal if it only happens after too little or not the right kind of food. Sometimes the timing is off. If I eat too early, I can’t eat enough so I get hungry soon again (instead of my normal 3 hours between meals). But a proper meal does the trick for me and if not, I wait (my hunger is tolerable then, thankfully) and eat some time later. If it works worse for you, my condolences, that must be tough. I used to hate being hungry (wasn’t used to it), now I have a soft tolerable hunger I like and food helps otherwise. It’s rare that I stay hungry after lunch and it’s usually when I am super mindful to eat little. It’s not a bad kind of hunger but a bit still annoying. I like to use hunger cues, eat when really hungry, stop when I got satiated though that can wave for a while…

But humans are so very complex, so many things can get messed up somewhat. And our food may be just a bit not right and it can totally change things…

That sounds horrible. Even if it’s the nicest kind of hunger, it would annoy me if I hadn’t it just for a few hours per week… :frowning:

#16

Interesting I take it Carnivore and fine tuning it to fit lifestyle does not work for people. On it now since beginning of this year hunger is never a problem. The MM treatments it has helped keep the side effects down. Balancing fat and meat percentages is important. JMO

(Bob M) #17

I’m still convinced it’s genetics for carbs. My wife’s brother came to visit and still eats cereal and milk in the mornings. Something that would have me be starving.

For carnivore and meat/fat ratio,I have no idea. I tend to like leaner meats. Eating beef heart today for lunch with some green olives and sardines. Not carnivore, but pretty close. If I get hungry at night, I like ham. Whether that makes me eat more or not is really difficult to tell.

(B Creighton) #18

This is actually quite normal Bob - although to different degrees. Nonetheless, this is the basis for the entire processed food industry, and why sugar is added to virtually everything. It spikes our dopamine, and that triggers things throughout the body to make us want more - we want more dopamine, and our hunger goes up. We just have to make a conscious decision to get off the sugar roller coaster. This food is what is driving the vast majority of heart disease - don’t feel deprived by avoiding it - you are avoiding the operating table or premature death my friend. Starches and added sugar should be strictly avoided. Those who don’t avoid them will in the end be the ones on the operating table or in the grave - no need to envy them, but it is the sad truth.

#19

I disagree. Basically everyone can handle some, our body just uses it up without a problem. Higher amounts, that is a different thing but sugar and starches are very different. Neither are great to me but if you asks my body, it would want carnivore but it handles starches loads better than sugars. Well I eat low-carb enough that I could handle very much sugar at once but when I still easily got sugar poisoned by some fruit, starches were still better, I handled a way bigger amount (the effect on me mentally is another matter but still, a little starch does about nothing). But yes, I function best with minimal plant carbs (animal sugars galore is fine).
But starches and sugars are vital for my SO’s healthy diet. He feels sick and starved then bloated on low-carb, he won’t try it again and I am happy with that as long as he eat really healthy. And he apparently does. His body needs a different diet than mine. Nothing unusual about that, the human body is complex with different needs between individuals. Thankfully ours give us good feedback, I trust my body the most as only it knows what it needs.

(B Creighton) #20

In the context I was discussing with ctviggen, I was talking about processed sugars and starches… and in that context I stand by my opinion that starches and sugars should be strictly avoided. Do I eat some sugar? Yes, I eat whole fruits, and some allulose, and the occassional other processed snack food. But, to eat processed foods like he is talking about with the constant stream of processed starches and sugar are the cause of metabolic disease IMHO. I do hope that is not what your SO eats. I do feel they should be strictly avoided… that doesn’t mean the occassional weak slip is going to kill you… As for whole plant starches, I basically now avoid those too, but yes, do occassional have sweet potato, etc. They are more like a once a week food for me and only when I am not doing keto. My one exception is an almost daily banana when not doing keto.