How can I raise my "ketosis" level

science
(Christopher Kornelsen) #1

So I started 2 weeks ago Monday. I so far am loving it and I knkw I’m extremely early on maybe I’m just to impatient but my ketone levels are never over 1. Barely over .6. This morning I ate a big meal tested and jts. 4. How do I increase that I keep reading optimal is 1-1.5 and above. My concern is I’ve also read as you get more fat adapted your levels will drop more due to your body being efficient. Am I doomed to never hitting that optimal place?
A few things I also am wondering

  1. Fibre content hard to reach when sticking 20g net or lower. And all I eat is veggies and some creamer heavy cream.
  2. I wanna do intermittent fasting but how the hell can I get my nutrients that in already struggling to get in in only 2 meals?
  3. I’m 250 lbs (243 now since keto) probably 190lb lean muscle mass so that’s my goal. I literally can only eat 2000 calories a day which seems insane I used to be up at 3k or 4k. Am I getting eniugh food?
  4. Ketone question above.

Thanks foe the help in advance no one I know does this so I’m trying to learn it all myself

(Ethan) #2

I think I need to clear up some misconceptions you have, and maybe you can feel better about where you are:

  1. There is not really an ideal level of ketosis. Ketones will fluctuate based on hormonal levels, types and levels of exercise, and time of day.
  2. There is no required or target amount of fiber. This doesn’t exist in the context of ketogenic diets for virtually all people.
  3. Eat when hungry. Don’t when not. Limit carbs. Eat enough protein. Eat fat until satiated. That’s it. It may be 2000 calories or 3000. Your body will tell you. Also, you can fit into two meals if you stick to those guidelines.
(Christopher Kornelsen) #3

Why is fibre not in context? Is the fibre studies done on disease prevention and health not applied to keto people and why nkt if so?

Isnt higher ketones meaning more energy for your body? Especially early on when my blood shows ketone smore?

Yes I like this alot just wanted to he sure I’m doing it right hah

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #4

You are only two weeks in. You need to give yourself time to adapt.
I am nearly 10 months in and I regularly see blood ketones around 1.0 to 2.0 (and sometimes higher).

(Ethan) #5

Dr Fung talks about it in episode 50 of the HPo podcast. Basically, no real studies show actual benefit for fiber—and in some cases show it making health worse—except to blunt the glucose spike when combined with regular carbs.

(Paul H) #6

Hmmm I was wondering about the extent of that and will check out the episode. Thanks.

(Christopher Kornelsen) #7

Cant find the podcast

(less is more, more or less) #8

Google is your friend, but a less obtuse reference is helpful, too.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=iUYCMPZB-MQ

Audio only: https://humanperformanceoutliers.libsyn.com/episode-50-dr-jason-fung

Any time spent with Dr. Fung is a good thing.

He starts around 67 minutes in and goes through to 72 minutes-ish, though I’d commend the whole podcast.

From the YouTube auto-created transcript (the TL;DR)

In the presence of a fatty meat-based diet you kind of almost removed that necessity for [fiber]

My dad died from colorectal cancer at a young 41 years of age. I have the gene that makes me susceptible to this cancer. I have had more colonoscopies than I care to think about. I love life and I enjoy my many unmerited blessings, that is, I want to stick around, so this particular aspect is important, as is research on the matter. As I approach two years into low-carb, I’m pleased with my overall health, including where the sun don’t shine.

But that’s just me.

(Ethan) #9

He mentioned the studies on colorectal cancer and fiber. He basically said they couldn’t even correlate it with benefits. In fact, overall mortality was worse with fiber. He says he doesn’t hate fiber, but is more or less agnostic about it. As for a “less obtuse response,” there is a backstory. I actually just listened to the podcast yesterday—what a coincidence! I wrote the post on my phone and found the podcast because it was the most recent one listened to.

(less is more, more or less) #10

Somebody has already answered, BUT, I have done well with Dr. Westman’s “Page Four” approach. I am a patient of his, as I live near, and work at, Duke University. The quick intro to Dr. Westman is he’s an early pioneer on the research and evidence side of low-carb living. His plan is straightforward to follow. As Dr. Westman says, the way you’ll think about food now is different from all the stuff you’ve heard, as we went through in the fiber discussion. Dr. Westman’s Page Four cuts to the chase. A low-carb lifestyle need not be hard. Following his prescription has dramatically simplified my own life.

How many calories you consume, and what you metabolize in 24 hours, as a key means of weight regulation is logically flawed. Proof? You’re here. Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, NutriSystem, and others, are all predicated on “Calories In, Calories Out.” (CICO) I’ve done each one, lost weight and yo-yo-ed right back to obesity, every darn time. Our bodies want to tap into burning fat stores, but carbs interfer with this. Years ago, or decades, in my case, we over-populated our fat stores, and our corpulent cellular friends have stuck around for a good long time, which is what we want. It’s why we talk about the role of hormones in weight (fat, really) reduction, and not too simplistic CICO as the “experts” have assured us.

As said above,

It’s hard to believe, but, once your fat-adapted, that is it. You won’t want to go back after you’ve lived this way.

I’m an outlier, here. I say; “Ketones, shmetones.” It’s nice to know why things change, but, now that I’m where I want to be, I want to maintain and enjoy life. Living below 20 TOTAL carbs (fiber and magical unicorn carbs also included) allows a nearly painless way to keep my current fitness, increase my vigor and overall health.

Again, what @ezb said, and, yes, ask us. We’re happy to help.

(Christopher Kornelsen) #11

Total carbs! Wow but then your eating like no veggies?

(Ethan) #12

I don’t eat plants, so that’s correct.

(Christopher Kornelsen) #13

Oh so your carnivore?

(less is more, more or less) #14

I knew who you meant by “HPO” a neophyte, won’t, however.

Ben Bikman has a funny quote about fiber, and I’ve lived through this. I jumped on the fiber bandwagon in the ’90s. My bowel movements dramatically increased. I wasn’t surprised, as I understood why. However, it became a problem, but I figured it was for a good reason. I commonly found myself “having to go” at the worse times, such as outdoor jogs. “What kind of dog left THAT?!?”

Anyhow,

Bikman rightly points out that the full effect of fiber is to “simply increase GI throughput.” When one switches to low-carb, there is a common misperception that one is constipated. Dr. Westman was ready for my question early on. I don’t go daily, and you know what? It’s bloody awesome. My comforter makes for a far more comfortable reading chair than the alternative throne.

I’ll close this with some wry twitter commentary and a study:

(less is more, more or less) #15

Page four is your friend. I can comfortably stay under 20 while enjoying 2 cups worth of vegetables. My wife would divorce me if I went carnivore. :wink:

Otherwise, I’d be more tempted to go carnivore.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

One of the benefits of fiber, so it is believed, is that it gets turned into butyrate by our intestinal bacteria, and butyrate is supposed to have beneficial effects on the cells that line the intestines. But even better than butyrate (or certainly at least as good), is β-hydroxybutyrate, one of the three ketone bodies produced by our liver when we limit our carbohydrate intake to a low enough level. Β-hydroxybutyrate is not just good food for our cells, it is also a powerful signaling hormone that undoes some of the damage caused by chronically elevated insulin levels. And in its capacity as a fat metabolite it is much healthier for cell linings than the polyunsaturated fatty acids found in vegetable oils.

Keep your carbohydrate as low as possible, and you will see the benefits of nutritional ketosis, whatever the reading on your meter.

ETA: Give this article a read:
Fiber and Colon Health On A Well-Formulated Ketogenic Diet: New Insights Question Its Role As An Unconditional Requirement

(Consensus is Politics) #17

There are no studies. Nothing peer reviewed. Not using science. Just consensus. Consensus is nothing more than opinion. Opinion is not science.

I have been thriving on keto for over 18 months now. Getting better in every metric the doc uses. Cured my diabetes in less than four months. Lost 40 pounds in the first 14 days. Blood work 100% good. Improved in all areas from scary to wow great!

All of this with next to no, nada, zilche, veggies. I do still, on rare occasion, ear a little onion or garlic or tomato. Keeping it below 20 net carbs. I dont count the fiber. But I definitely dont try to add any for any reason.

Fiber will not keep you out of ketosis. Fiber does not effect you insulin. Increased insulin levels is what turns of ketosis, and keeps it off four a couple of hours. For this very reason many people like to do fasting or intermittent fasting, or even like me, just one meal a day.