Higher Carb Experiment

(Edith) #1

I have been doing a higher carb experiment since September. I originally mentioned it in the carnivore thread. Now, it’s time for an update.

I have been following the keto diet for over seven years. In that time I have been through perimenopause and I believe I am finally post menopausal at the age of 58. Because of food intolerances, I am gluten and dairy-free. Psoriatic arthritis runs in my family, both my mom and my brother have it pretty bad. I believe my diet and possibly keto have kept me from having the same fate.

The only problem I’ve had with keto over the years is that keeping my electrolytes balanced has been a challenge, a big challenge. The other problem I’ve had is sleep but I figured that was due to the hormonal changes.

In September I was on vacation and ingested a bit more carbs than usual. I will admit I was also a bit more active than usual, but my sleep was fabulous. When I returned home and tightened up the diet I returned to the 3:30 am awakenings. Once I re-introduced the increased carbs, the sleep was great again. Also, my electrolytes have been MUCH easier to balance.

Since mid-September I have been eating anywhere from 50-100 grams a carbs a day, still lowish carb. My sleep has been the best I’ve had in years, but… what has come with the carb increase? Aching joints and sore muscles.

Is it some of the plants I re-introduced over the past few months irritating my body or is it the higher carb levels? :thinking: I’m hoping it’s the various plants I had not been eating before September. I really don’t want to give up the glorious sleep I’ve had for the past few months.

So… the next step for my experiment is to cut back on the carbs again and get rid of the inflammation. Then up the carbs but with limited variety and see what happens.

#2

Me too!!! So many people have this: add carbs or certain items, one thing gets much better, the other gets much worse :frowning: Unfair!

Your carb intake is nice, I had that on low-carb, it was my best possible diet for years… I just had to go lower later.
What did you add? I am looking forward to your experiments! Will you try to add one item at a time to figure out what works?

Good luck, find your sweet spot relatively soon!

(Bob M) #3

My guess would be the plants. Could you try something like rice noodles at the same carb level for a while? Or some other carb you’re relatively sure doesn’t affect you? (For me, rice noodles seem to be the best at not causing issues. You may or may not find it the same.)

#4

This is great Edith. Thanks for the update. I think there are a lot of advisors on increased dietary carbohydrates for peri-menopausal and menopausal women. I am going through manopause I think.

The Strong Sistas are interesting on the topic. But I don’t agree with them. But they do make me think. I seem to remember Dr. Jaime Seeman had plenty of excellent science-based advice on the subject. Of course there are Georgia Eade and Amber O’Hearn as well. The other person that I find also very interesting in this area is Mary Ruddick. And another is Dr. Cate Shanahan.

My understanding is that the quality of the carbohydrate containing foods are important. You are all over oxalates, phytates, and other potential plant toxins, as well as histamine intolerances. So, it looks like you will have to spend a year in rural Italy eating home grown produce prepared with ancient knowledge, to hit that perfect dietary carb zone and refreshing sleep consistency.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #5

I missed the original post. Great experiment though.
Tell me, what form did the carbs take? I’m interested from a selfish point of view because my sleep has been bad recently. And most veg bloat me.

Could this be the reason for better sleep? Works for some right?
Keep us updated, this is interesting, painful for you potentially though!

(Megan) #6

Hi Edith, good to hear from you again. My sleep on carnivore is terrible and much, much better as a carb eater. I wake every 30-90 minutes until about 4am then usually sleep through until I wake for the day. Nothing obvious, like needing to pee or pain, is waking me up. However, like you I get a lot of aches and pain when eating carbs, also weight gain. Bob’s suggestion to try something like just rice noodles seems worth exploring. I am a real food addict so need to stay carnivore because it shuts the door to every bingeable food. I can still overeat because the foods are so nutrient rich, but at least I don’t binge.

Keep us posted!

#7

Edith. Not sure which carbohydrate foods you are trying. But based on the work of Dr. Bill Schindler - ripe fruits may be a good choice compared to rice, which is a grain, or other vegetables, seeds and nuts.

(Bob M) #8

His book is good too:

https://a.co/d/hkIjkKE

I find I can eat fermented plants relatively easily. Few cause me issues. But I was trying a targeted keto diet for a while (eat carbs after working out, I was using 50g), and I tried sweet potatoes, Japanese sweet potatoes, and even carefully prepared beans (soaking overnight in salt and something else - baking soda?, draining, cooking well). All of those caused me issues.

White rice noodles were the one thing that did not.

Fruit is often recommended, I think the theory being that plants want you to eat the fruit. I’m not sure why I didn’t use fruit, other than it’s a source of fructose. If you have fatty liver, you don’t want more fructose.

My main problem with fruit is that I don’t have an off switch with it. I’d eat it and eat it,… It’s like bacon and nuts, which I avoid due to overeating.

But maybe I’m the only one with that issue.

(Chuck) #9

For me I need the 100 carbs each day. Everything from my blood pressure, blood sugar, my skin, digestive tract and sleep depends on a certain amount of carbs. But I did lose weight easily on keto, but strict keto made my blood pressure higher and my heart rate higher the longer I restricted my carbs below 50 a day. I am finding that I can cycle with a day of very low carbs then a day of at least 100 carbs and my body will smooth out the issues with my blood pressure, blood sugar and general digestive system and sleep. I also find that once I cross that 150 carb line I don’t feel well and I am sluggish just like I am if I keep my carbs restricted to below 50. I am stabilizing my weight and I believe slowly lowering my weight with intermittent fasting. My hard rules is not eating anything after 6pm or before 10am. But I find my normal is nothing after 5pm and before 11am. I just start my day normally with one of my own created smoothies. My smoothie is about 550 calories and has carbs, fat, protein and needed vitamins and nutrients I need without having to take supplements. My last meal is a portion of meat or seafood and veggies and a fruit for a dessert. I will drink a lagger beer a few times a week I can’t stand light beer I an use to German dark heavy beer I also will have a glass of wine once a week. My goals aren’t weight so much as stable normal blood pressure, blood sugar, and keeping my lab results so it keeps my doctors reasonably happy. I have given up on pleasing my ego and only keeping my body happy and stable.
For me a stable blood pressure means no prescription drugs needed, my tinnitus is less noticeable, my digestive system is happy, and even my eye sight is less of an issue. My key no processed food, no chemical drugs, no fast food, no soft drinks, and very seldom having anything with wheat in it.

(Edith) #10

Before I started increasing my carbs, I was eating mostly meat, fruit, arugula, cabbage, and some cruciferous vegetables. Since I started increasing the carbs, I had added in some nuts (those ended up being a no-go), sweet potato, green beans, tomatoes, and bell peppers ( I think the bell peppers are also a no-go). I added some rice. I admit to eating IQ Bars several times a week as a snack. The fruit variety increased from mostly berries to include apples, grapes, oranges. I was less restricted in using some gluten-free and dairy-free gravies and sauces.

As I’m looking back at this list, I certainly didn’t go crazy, but there are certain things that are standing out to me as possibly problematic: the IQ bars (well, that’s really a no-brainer) and the sauces/gravies (also a no-brainer). So, it’s possible, it’s not really the higher level of carbs but by increasing my carbs, I also loosened the standards a bit?

I think this has been a good exercise going through the list of additions. So, the plan is still to clean up the diet, lower the carbs, get down any remaining inflammation (especially now that Thanksgiving is over), and then increase the carbs again.

That is the plan.

Sigh… wouldn’t that be nice…:blush:

I find this very interesting. My blood pressure is quite low, but has been slightly higher with increased carbs which I am liking. I’ve been able to keep my electrolytes more balanced and that has helped with the blood pressure. My husband on the other hand is borderline hypertensive. It might be an interesting experiment to test his blood pressure with varying amounts of carbs.

@MeganNZ, it’s been soooo nice having good sleep. I am hoping I can find a balance between eating enough carbs, not overindulging, and getting good sleep, and not awakening the inflammation monster lurking inside.

Thanks for all the input so far everyone.

(Chuck) #11

Everyone’s bodies are different. I don’t believe so much in eating for blood type but believe it can lead to some interesting facts about diets. I am a type A+ blood type which if you believe eating to your blood type means that I should eat vegetarian diet. Well I do love all types of vegetables, fruit and nuts, but I also love dairy, meats of all types and seafood. But I believe in eating in moderation. I also believe in intermittent fasting. I eat a lot smaller portions of meat now than I use to, and I eat smaller portions of vegetables but also I eat more varieties of vegetables and fruits with each meal. But I also don’t eat but one meal a day along with my smoothies. Also nuts are my go to snacks.

(Ace McInturff) #12

I have found that adding a Magnesium supplement has helped with sleeping through the night.

(Edith) #13

Yup, I have been doing that for years. The real difference appears to be the extra carbs.

I am blood type O+. That means a more paleo way of eating is supposedly appropriate for my blood type. Interestingly, I cannot handle gluten or dairy, which does fit with the hypothesis for O+. :woman_shrugging:

(Chuck) #14

We are all individuals, and alot of it is the way we were brought up

(B Creighton) #15

Nuts - for relatively low oxalate, limit to macadamia nuts, pecans, pistachios, hemp hearts, coconut, sunflower seeds, and maybe pumpkin seeds. Almonds, cashews, and walnuts are high to moderate oxalate as are basically all other nuts. Sweet potato, white potatoes and bell peppers are high oxalate, and I typically avoid them. When doing keto, I typically limit myself to about a half cup of organic berries and pasture-fed buttered cruciferous vegetables with Herbamayer salt. That’s pretty much it for the daily carbs. It is all fairly low oxalate, and low inflammatory. Asparagus is included, and sometimes green beans. Also, when not concentrating on fat loss, I can include a red grapefruit for breakfast.

(Robin) #16

Same. It also helps with muscle cramps.

(Bob M) #17

This weekend, where I ate bread, ice cream, etc., I had to take way more magnesium than I normally do on keto. Waaaaay more.

Sleeping for me is difficult to determine. Sometimes/most times, I sleep great. Other times, not so well. I’ve never been able to figure out what the difference is, though I don’t think it relates to carb intake. I could be wrong though.

#18

Sleeping is about the same for me (I sleep through the night and wake up tired, no matter my diet) but I don’t become the usual morning zombie if I eat extreme low-carb. I may even be able to get up in the morning! That’s nice. I still have the lowest energy in the morning but still, I feel kind of alive.

Magnesium is odd… I never ever had cramps before keto (cramps always seem to mean I need more Mg as taking some solves it). It was common on keto without taking some Mg here and there… And it nearly completely went away on carnivore with enough meat (low meat carnivore wasn’t so good).
But now it happens with higher-carb too. I have no idea what happens in my body but it’s possible my carni food just have low magnesium (when I tried to figure it out, I have found that. I just don’t have good Mg sources. not like I had them on high-carb but maybe from all the plants I still got enough…?) and I heavily depend on animal food even on my carbier times now…

(Megan) #19

Welcome to the forum! I’ve tried various types of magnesium, in various doses. None of them seem to directly help with sleep, unfortunately. It’s good as a constipation preventer and possibly helps me with muscle pain at night.

(KM) #20

Mine is related to animal foods. That is, if I don’t give the cat an extra can of food before I go to bed, he wakes me up every half hour to “snuggle”. :grin::roll_eyes: